New Source: X-PRO2 will feature a Full Frame sensor. Initially 3 to 5 FF lenses!


 photo pro_zps2b6733fe.jpg

Les jeux sont faits! According to a new source Fujifilm decided to put a Full Frame sensor into the X-PRO2.

The source said that existing XF lenses won’t fit on on the new Full Frame X-PRO2. Therefore new FF Fujinon lenses will be offered (initially 3-5) and rest will be Leica lenses via a detachable mount.

Another anonymous source confirmed the rumor of yesterday saying that “the information you have on X-PRO1S being scrapped is correct. The X-PRO2 would be available around 6months after any X-PRO1S which is why it was stopped”.

Until now it’s all unconfirmed, so please take it with a tiny grain of salt.

stay tuned
Patrick (facebook, google+ and twitter)


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XF 18mm: $200 off (price $400) at BHphoto / Adorama / AmazonUS / Pictureline
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  • tharwan

    I think this would be a bad move for fuji. I would like to see them improving there APS-C lenses and cameras instead doing it like sony (as well as canon and nikon if you will) and having two (three) systems that are unfinished.

    • faberryman

      I have it from a new source that the Fuji XPro-2 with have a 6×9 MF sensor and a new line of lenses.

      • Bob Howland

        That actually makes more sense than just going for FF. I could see people owning both systems and using the current system cameras when size is important and the 6X9 system when they need the last bit of image quality and resolution. Back in the dark ages of film, lots of professional photographers owned both Nikons and Hasselblads, and, more often than not, a 4X5 view camera.

        • Eric Duminil

          He was joking.

      • Eric Duminil

        I LOLed :D

      • Bob

        A 6×9 MF digital – now THAT would be worth buying. Bring back the Fuji GSW690III in digital form.

      • Patrick

        let’s mark that comment and come back to it at photokina ;-)

  • Kjguch

    Good God I hope not. To upgrade my X-Pro1 I’d also have to update all of my lenses? Worst idea ever! If they want a Full-frame (and up untill now I never heard any such desire from the Fuji-corporation), please make it a separate line. I would love an update of my camera, but FF is the last thing on my list.

    • hexx

      and what do you think it would be if not a separate line? really don’t understand your comment

      • kjguch

        Oh, but I wouldn’t mind a separate line. If Fuji wants to create a FF camera, please let them do so! By all means, there’s apparently a market for it. But as for the X-Pro line that -in my mind- should stay with the sensor-size and lensmount as it is. As much as I love my X-Pro1, there is still room for improvement. But if I’d also have to swap all my glass I’m gonna have to call it quits, I’m but a humble enthusiast with limited budget, and I absolutely prefer the handling of the X-Pro1 to the X-T1

        • hexx

          Fully agree with you regarding X-Pro1 – I just don’t believe we will ever see it replaced (if this rumour turns out to be true).
          My understanding is that most of the customers preferred to buy X-E(1/2) over X-Pro1 – me personally I picked X-Pro1 for build quality, OVF and larger body (I use it with additional grip, have largish hands).
          I have only two XF lenses as my shooting needs don’t require zooms, prefer to have one wide, normal and occasionally portrait/macro lens -> that’s what I keep in my other systems too (FF, MF)

  • DouglasGottlieb

    What happened to the “organic sensor?” This rumor needs more than a grain of salt! :) I can’t see Fuji introducing a second line of incompatible lenses.

    • DouglasGottlieb

      Then again, Leica manages to do full frame mirrorless with tiny lenses, so maybe Fuji can work some magic

      • hexx

        don’t forget, Leica’s lenses don’t have image stabilisation and AF and who knows what other stuff :) customers at this time do want to have AF and IS and bells and whistles

        • DouglasGottlieb

          Good point. The IS and AF that Leica eschews do add bulk. But there’s magic there too. For example, the Voigtlanders for M43 also are fully manual, need to cover a much smaller sensor, but are significantly larger and heavier than the “FF” Leica lenses. And so far, Fuji has made great lenses, but they are not smaller than Leica’s full frame, and only cover APSC. Bigger lenses would seem to be a step in the wrong direction. Making tiny, full frame Fuji M mount glass might be a juggernaut on many fronts.

  • SLRist

    This does actually makes sense. Fuji are in a great position to compete directly with Leica. My guess is that it would be a Leica mount body, or come with a Leica adapter. The X-Pro1 body was always far too big to compete in the ‘sub-SLR’ space where mirrorless traditionally has the most followers. Now there’s no reason why the same body couldn’t still come with an X-mount adapter for those with existing lenses. You’d just use a smaller portion of the sensor. Anyway – this is all guess and supposition. I’m waiting on the X200 myself.

  • Martin

    yesss! Finally a FF-sensor. Fuji is going to build a state-of-the-art camera.

  • John M

    I knew this would get the whiners going! If this does come to fruition then it means they’re aiming for the top of the market. For those who whine about the cost, Fuji have just brought out the XT1. You won’t actually have to buy the new camera.

    • dirk

      Anything gets them going. Even nothing. ;)

  • GCL

    Nonsense! The lenses would be way too large (with AF and IS they will have to be larger by default). This would ONLY make sense if they stick to primes, and f2 to f2.8 lenses. Many people have never seen or held a Leica lens, but they are amazingly tiny for lenses that cover a full frame sensor. On the other hand, I’d be totally into the X-Pro 2 (I did own two X-Pro 2s and an X-E1) if it was a REAL rangefinder and had high quality Fuji glass manual focus lenses (NO fly-by-wire junk). If so, I’d buy it for sure–especially if my Leica lenses fit on it too, then it would be the best of both worlds. I feel that Fuji color and Fuji low-light ability is much better than Leica.

    • Michael Abraham Bruder

      Size is also a factor of autofocus and IS. Leica lenses are small but also are Manual. Seems sony’s a7 really proves the point as their lenses are huge.

      • Belicosos

        Coupled with the fact that Leica lenses are really only meant to be used on film due to corner issues that require digital corrections

    • hexx

      And i was just about to put my M mount lenses on ebay (selling Leica system, camera, lenses)… might keep them now

  • Joe

    Its only rumors

  • Fred

    At last…

    Nowadays with Fuji line it’s hard to see what the “Pro” label stands for regarding the rest of their offer (beside the hybrid viewfinder). It makes sense to develop a full frame body to have a different product.
    Sony is going strong with its full frame A7 and we’re stuck if we want to use Leica M compatible lenses to their full potential with APS-C sensors (among which distortion and depth of field).

    Right now i was hesitating to stick with fuji because of A7’s potential.

    • Sri

      For me… Sony is a big joke in photography !! A7 is a tech toy.. They come no where near to fuji in terms of commitment to their customers… Sony releases more cameras than lenses.. Reliability quotient matters !

  • Henry Tse

    I just wrote this wish in the previous news! It’s finally coming!!

  • Hear that noise? That was Resale Value, kissing Sales Volume goodbye on its way out.

    • Henry Tse

      They should allow existing Fuji lens to be used with APS-C crop just like Nikon’s FX camera have DX crop

      • hexx

        depends on the mount -> if the same mount can be used or not, if yes there is no reason why it wouldn’t work (although, can’t see many reasons why you would want it)

    • Adrian

      Unfortunately, I believe you’re right. The resale value of the Fuji x-mount cameras and lenses is already extremely low. Introduce FF and it will plummet even further.

  • Bob

    Going full frame would significantly increase the size, weight, and cost, wouldn’t it?

    • Luffy

      yes. But I think it would be great to have the option for FF. APS-C is pretty good already with the X-T1. If they can manage to release lenses for both at usual speed I don’t see a disadvantage for the consumer. They can choose whatever they think they will need.

      • Kelvin

        Well said…

    • Kelvin

      The cost maybe but not the size and weight.

      • evert

        not the camera, of the lenses however, definitely (if you want 1.4, 1.2 lenses)

        • Kelvin


  • Hans Wahlgren

    Hope this is just a rumor. I would not buy a new set of lenses just to get Full Frame. Don’t need Full Frame. I would be perfectly happy with an updated APS-C sensor camera. On thing that would make me run to the dealer would be if the X-Pro2 schrunk to X100 size. The X-Pro is to bulky!

  • Kelvin

    Hope its true…

    This is exactly what I have been waiting for and have suspected Fuji will do going forward with the X-Pro. To me it makes sense, not only using Leica lenses, one should also be able to use other FF legacy lenses. This will be a winner for pros.


    • Henry Tse

      I totally think this move is logical, so that they can even the odds… (from Sony / Leica) However, I think current APS-C fuji lens not being able to use in FF Fuji might be get translated wrongly they should be useful in APS-C crop… I only brought one Fuji lens since it was introduced as I kinda anticipated this coming.

      • Kelvin

        Same here… I have just one lens the 35 1.4 which barely see’s any action. Personally, I prefer MF lenses on my X-Pro1 and love it. You are bang on when you say it’s a logical move for Fuji, not only for the reasons you stated, but also for folks like me who happen to have a collection of legacy lenses and would like to utilize their full potential as FF lenses on FF sensors, if rumor is true, I doubt they will make a camera that can’t use the current line up of APSC lenses as well as new FF lenses like they did when they first released the X-Pro. I might do the same, buy the X-Pro2 with one of the new FF lenses, done! I will never sell my X-Pro1, never… It will act as a back up…

  • agree, I also hope this is true! I love the Fuji X for personal and street shooting. For assignments however, I stick with ff.

  • KarmannMissouri

    I know this is a rumour site but this is complete nonsense! To introduce FF and a complete range of lenses would be ridiculous. It ain’t going to happen…..yet.

    • hexx

      why would that be ridiculous? current aps-c based camera owners will have option to add FF system if they wish – you do not have a gun pointed at your head and somebody shouting at you to buy it, do you?

  • Eric Duminil

    I don’t think so. Historical advantages of FF vs APS have been:
    * big viewfinder
    * shallow DOF
    * great image quality

    With the XT-1 and the 56 1.2, those advantages are almost completely gone.

    You can get FF quality in a relatively small package and acceptable prices.

    • Tv

      I agree with your statement. However, Fuji will make what the market wants and if Full frame sells then they will make a full frame camera. Have you noticed that most of the new higher end Nikon’s and Canon’s have been full frame (albeit DSLRs)? Canon keep putting off the replacement of the 7D and they don’t even make an APSC 1 series cameras any more.

      • Rich

        True, but the vast majority of CaNikon lenses will work on a full frame body, so it doesn’t really matter what the sensor size is for most of the glass (or the users who have bought lenses). With Fuji, they are building up a lens line-up that is APS-C only, they don’t have any FF glass.

    • ian

      You can’t get ff quality in apsc (all else being equal). You can get close, and for your purposes it may be more than enough, but your statement is false. By your logic, you can get the same quality from a 1″ sensor as you can in apsc. Physics says otherwise.

      • hexx

        you can’t bring physics here ;)

      • Eric Duminil

        You’re right. What I meant to say is that X-Trans image quality is good enough for almost any application, just like FF quality has been good enough since the D3/D700 days.

      • nwcs

        You mean m43 not 1″

    • sperdynamite

      Nah, I can see the difference in my pictures between my FF dslr and my XE2. The XE2 is great, but sometimes the images just look more flat when compared to FF. Not just an issue of fine detail, the image is different.

  • Cornellius

    hmm going to be pissed if this is true, just purchased a bunch of lenses after the whole “CEO not interested in full frame etc etc.”

    New APS-C sensor pls

    Wouldn’t FF be a real niche market? I really hope they APS-C line doesn’t take a back seat if they are releasing / developing something.

    Shit we haven’t even seen any weather sealed lenses yet.

    • Luffy

      Why? The APS-C line is pretty good and you can go out and shoot with your equipment. If you already invested in APS-C it seems there was no need for FF.

  • Patrick, when exactly did you receive these rumor submissions? On April 1st?

  • venancio

    santa is real… he lives in japan… thanks Fuji… but impress with the video side this time as well…

  • not sure whether too whoop or not!

    Whoop! FF Fujis and New Sony’s on the horizon – YAY!

    Not: I have no more money after buying recent Fuji’s and Sony’s.

    Rapid pace of innovation is a double edged sword if you like tech!

  • PRL

    Interesting if True. It has been rumoured that the X PRO 2 would have new sensor tec, so has Fuji taken Xtrans as far as it can with the XT1. How will they keep lens size down on FF and keep the system compact – manual focus lenses?Will they stick with ovf – evf or do they have something really new with the finder. We have some interesting months ahead but I am still happy to get the XT1.

    • miniTO

      “IF” this is true it would probably be FF X-Trans…
      In any case the lenses would not be small optics are optics… The A7 is good place to look for lens sizes…

  • Henry Tse

    Leica is going to announce new APS-C size interchangeable len camera plus Sony is trying to stepping into Full Frame, this seems a logical move.

    • John Deere is going to announce a new line of silverware, while Kleenex is building a new oil rig. Seems like a logical move, but not a 100%… something’s wrong with it.

  • Henry

    Good news = This is going to be very exciting! Finally Fuji will jump to FF.

    Bad news = I already invested a lot in XF lens!

  • hervan

    these FF rumors are the most useless rumors here. if it’s indeed true, why halt the development of a minor update that could be finished with technology they already master from previous models (xe2, x100s, xt1)? they don’t have just to relocate personnel from xpro1s body development to xpro2 body development, fuji also needs to halt development of all the 5 unreleased lenses in the roadmap to create 5 new full frame lenses in less than a year. keep in mind that the promised lenses are fast zooms and weather sealed lenses that helped bring “pro reliability” to the X system – so this new source is telling us that fuji is leaving the huge success of xt1 behind, just for the “FF dream”?

    • Old Doc

      A rumor is just that: a rumor…
      A real rumor cannot be useless !! Either it is based on some truth, than it is worth the time spent reading it, or it is a fake !! Only fake rumors are useless…

  • Bjorn

    Meh, it doesn’t sound very likely to me. Not with the great set of lenses they’ve released for a crop sensor only.
    But hey on the other hand, Sony did something similar going from NEX to the A7.

    My dream; Fujifilm develops a FF rangefinder with M-mount. Just like Cosina did with the Zeiss Ikon ZM. How cool would that be?!!
    It would be nice if Leica had some competition. But I suppose I better not hold my breath…

    • hexx

      they won’t do it, MF cameras simply don’t sell these days – it would make no commercial sense

      • Bjorn

        I realize that. It’s just my own wish full thinking ;-) It’s niche market and owned by Leica. They are the only company that get’s away with charging that kind of money for a camera and still have a waiting list.

        • hexx

          well, you could use existing M-mount lenses just no RF focusing -> and lack of it takes some magic away on one hand, but allows for better framing, closer focusing distance, use of longer focal lengths via EVF on the other

  • Austin

    Hopefully this is just a lame rumor. APS-C X-Trans Organic sensor please, weather sealing, updated viewfinder, better AF, MF usability with OVF needed.

    • Ian

      No reason why they can’t do both apsc and ff. I don’t understand why people would be hoping this isn’t true. I for one hope dearly that Fuji does go ff. The sooner the better.

      • D

        Agreed! They can have both systems.

      • Austin

        Yeabut if they want to introduce full-frame, they should procuce it alongside the current X Pro lineup. The reason I’m drawn to the X Pro system is its hybrid viewfinder. I’ve held off on buying the X Pro 1 becuase the technology is problematic and I’m waiting for an APS-C XPro 2 to get things right. Some people like APS-C AND the hybrid finder, but would like to see it improved. If Fuji wants to make a FF hybrid rangefinder, fine, but they shouldn’t stop improving on the APS-C hybrid rangefinder system.

  • Tv

    Fuji is trying to make cameras the market wants to buy and they will be watching sales of the sony A7 etc very closely – may be they know something we don’t i.e. that the A7 is selling very well. They clearly saw the success of the OMD and have arguably out Olympus’ed Olympus with the XT-1. I suspect they are working on a full frame camera but may not have made the final decision yet whether to go full frame or not.

  • Khoral

    I have my doubts. What’s the point in creating such a line of lenses in such a short time if you go back to square one?

    • tim

      Because everyone else is going to do it and Fuji will get left behind if they don’t. They (Fuji) are already fairly marginal …

      • miniTO

        I didn’t notice Olympus going this route? Their commited to M4/3 and there user base is happy with it.
        FF is NOT a requirement for any camera line…

        • hexx

          neither it’s a requirement for you to buy it, you can keep updating your camera with future APS-C based offerings

  • AdelphosChaz

    Only worry: lens size. (Also sucks for people who went all in and bought several lenses after the whole Fuji isn’t going FF any time soon)
    That’s why the X200 wouldn’t matter if it was FF. Anyone think they will test it there first? I haven’t bought the 23/1.4 solely because I want to see what the X200 offers.

  • George Christofi

    I don t think fuji going for FF.They have to in-proof the AF first like Dslr

  • Stephen Shaw

    I can’t believe it… after hearing the CEO saying they weren’t going to move over to FF I’ve literally just ordered the 23mm and the 56mm and spent over €1500 on new glass. I thought oh well I’ll invest in X glass and upgrade to an x-pro2 as and when it comes out. Looks like I’m out of luck. The size/weight/price ratio for the APS-C x-pro1 is perfect. Really hope this turn out no to be true!

    • Henry Tse

      I don’t think FUJI will drop APS-C so why worry?

      • Stephen Shaw

        If they continued two product lines side by side I’d be happy, But I’ve been waiting for two years to upgrade my x-pro1 with another range finder style camera

    • Bjorn

      Well you can’t really expect the CEO to say that there considering FF. Just like you mentioned yourself; that would be bad for sales of their current line-up. I think the CEO would prefer you to buy both ;-). Just like they didn’t release a 35mm equiv. for the x-mount initially. It would cannibalize X100 sales.

    • Bob

      The CEO has misled us in the past. Remember when he said “there will be no black x100s” and so everyone bought a silver one. Then the black one came out a few months later. :-/

  • What I want to see in the next X-Pro model is a sort of digital rangefinder inside the OVF.
    This would be a real improvement.
    We could have rangefinder focus with every lens (original and adapted) like it’s actually possible in the X-E2 and X-T1 EVF, but with the all advantages of the OVF!

    • Robertoalagna

      You’re so right. I hope to see this kind of improvement… Fuji, do you hear us ???

  • edd

    It’s possible since Sony did the same thing. Crop body and lenses and then the full frame body and lenses to match. Except that with Sony you can use the crop lenses on the full frame the mount is the same. Fuji would have to do the same thing where you could use your existing lenses on the XPRO-2, but with a crop factor…

    • miniTO

      “IF” Fuji were to go this route and not have the ability to use the existing lenses in crop mode I think they are going to really tick off there exising user base…
      They are better off commiting to APS-C IMO…

  • Rich

    Not going to happen. Fuji are still developing their APS-C lineup of lenses and have always said they have no desire to go FF in the near future. Bare in mind this is a NEW source – just think; any one of us could simply send and email saying “FF” and it would have the same value as this rumour. No chance.

    • Greg

      Agreed. This seems very unlikely. Most likely someone looking to stir up the rumor mill.
      Fuji has way too much work ahead of it on the APS-C system first.
      Fuji developing a system for a larger sensor seems likely at some point. But not now. Way too soon. Given the current development pace I don’t see how they could execute the current road map and simultaneously develop a whole new system. Unless they reallocate major resources or hire new ones.

      • Michael

        That’s why they don’t plan to release the camera before 2015 – if the source is correct, of course.

        • Didiergm

          2015 is just round the corner mind you.

          • Michael

            2015 means for me: At the earliest at Photokina 2014 we will see some prototypes of the FF Fuji. Then the announcement will come in January 2015. And the release in March 2015 – which is still almost a year of time – at least for me.

          • Didiergm

            For me too – but in investments terms (or rather spending terms) it is near enough to affect sales of existing line up at least until the rumors is proven or not to be on solid grounds

    • Michael

      But you don’t know how they interpret “near” in their statement “no desire to go FF in the near future.”
      Especially since it’s a statement from a japanese senior manager you really have to read carefully what they are saying – and not taking everything literally. There’s a lot strategic thinking in their statements.

      • Rich

        I think it is prudent to give more credibility to what several senior managers have repeatedly said, than some anonymous fanboy on the internet sending their first message to a rumour site! It is simply absurd to cast aside everything we’ve learnt about Fuji (remember they have always staunchly claimed that their APS-C is as good as FF) for the sake of one person claiming FF. People will believe it, just as they believe FF is the holy grail that will allow their cat pictures and selfies to be transformed into works of art.

        Fuji will release another APS-C X-Pro2 in the next year with an improved sensor and a new X-Trans filter and will again claim that it is as good as the current crop of FF SLRs (which it very well might be…). Now had I posted that as an email to the rumour box it would have been posted on the site and 50% of readers would have taken it as fact.

        They may well release a FF in the future, but it won’t be at the expense of their current X system.

        • hexx

          “remember they have always staunchly claimed that their APS-C is as good as FF” – if you remember the launch slides you’d see that the comparison was done against Canon 5DII

  • G R

    Yes, two different systems one for work and the other for play.

  • Ian

    This is awesome news. This will be my dream camera. I’ve been hoping Fuji will go full frame.
    Ive been holding off on upgrading my s5 for full frame Fuji. I’m excited.
    I can’t wait to hear more details. Please be true! If so, this will be my next camera.

  • Esco

    Hi Patrick, I think you should change the name of the site to:

    • Antoine B.


    • Patrick

      with a 100% right rumors in 2014, I think that fujinews would be a better name ;-)

  • I really don’t think that Fuji has the financial means to develop another system around a ff sensor and mentain the great aps-c lineup. Fuji is not Canon or Nikon. Not even Sony. Maybe it will be a fixed lens camera with an ff sensor…On the other hand I hope this will not become the eternal ff rumor like in the Pentax world…

    • nwcs

      They have the financial means corporately. Question is whether it’s a good investment of their resources to do so in a declining market.

      • Yes, they can’t afford to build a system that won’t sell and that will generate big losses, considering that even the X system isn’t generating profit yet… We have to remember that present companies are ruled by economists and not by engineers and the economic crisis of our generation is still in place in most parts of the world…

  • darngooddesign

    Awesome, now everyone who has spent a small fortune on lenses and buy expensive new FF lenses to go with their expensive new FF body.

    • Adrian

      Um, there’s nothing in the post about Fuji’s decision to obliterate anyone still using an APS-C camera… so don’t worry, you won’t HAVE to buy anything.

  • hexx

    Don’t burn me for this, but I believe we can all thank to Sony for this – there is big demand for mirror less FF cameras and Fuji has to have an answer.

  • SLRist

    As the hot rod boys say “Ain’t no substitute for cubes” and the same goes for sensor size. I already have Nikon FF kit, so there’s no reason for me to swap systems, but a Full Frame X200 – that would be very tempting…

    • Bob

      “There’s no replacement for displacement” is the phrase you’re looking for, I think ;-)

      • SLRist

        That’s the metric version, yes.

  • Andrew Brown

    So – has the X-Pro1s development been halted in favour of the X-Pro 2? I most definitely think so. Why? How can you have a Pro model that is not the best model in the range… Really – who would buy an X-Pro 1 with the XT-1 available to purchase? It’s a no brainer…

    Will the X-Pro 2 be FF or APS-C? I’m not really sure either way…

    What have they got to offer over the XT-1 for an X-Pro 2? It has to be something good that will justify the price premium that ‘Pro’ tag comes with. It could be an increase in MP’s, ISO Range, Shutter Speed range, or they might offer the FF option. What is wrong with Fuji offering a FF option of 24mp over the APS-C range? I think this would then impact on the MF area as well as add another choice for the landscape and wedding/ portrait togs.

    The real question would be at what price and what size/ weight of body & lenses?

  • Adrian

    The main issue would not be the camera, which would presumably come in at around 2000 USD, but the lenses. I don’t want to wait a few years for a reasonably complete line up, nor do I want to pay 1800 USD for a 50mm 1.2, which would be the case considering Fuji’s market share and low volume. As such, I’m not interested – bring me a T/S for the APS-C sensor and I’ll be happy :)

    • Gluon

      You are absolutely right.
      Moreover, a Fuji FF would not be an X-system.
      This rumor is nonsense.

    • ian

      If nobody wanted to wait for a reasonably complete lens lineup a few years ago, Fuji x would never have existed today. What is with apsc users being against a ff offering? I just don’t get it.

      Please do ff Fuji!

      • hexx

        for some reason they feel insecure (can’t understand that reason though)

        • Didiergm

          If you look at Nikon: they never quite completed their lens line up for DX (crop sensor format) aside from the über-represented zome range with variable and slow apertures. I realise Fuji as a decent line up for DX although not quite complete but people are concerned that bringing FF will divert all resources towards FF letting DX down, or giving the alternative of very expensive and may be incompatible new lens (not sure if they can reuse the same mount for FF)

          • hexx

            APS-C lens line-up from Fuji is pretty good as it is. What is missing is T/S, true 1:1 macro and some weather sealed lenses to compliment X-T1 -> but I believe that their line-up is in better shape than Nikon’s.

          • Didiergm

            I agree with you, was just trying to explain what I believe to be the reasons for this insecurity :)

          • nwcs

            And telephoto. Not everyone wants to be tied in to 200mm or less.

        • David

          Nope, I just like the idea of a company committed to a system and an idea. I really believe that APS-C is enough, and I liked that Fuji was dedicated to making the best APS-C system they could. If they go FF, the APS-C system will always play second fiddle, won’t be updated as frequently, and ultimately, I worry about whether Fuji can even pull two lineups off. I could be wrong, but I think the main base for FF cameras are pros, and there is a lot more to having a pro lineup than a good sensor and a few great lenses. You need support, globally, for pros. You need to entice pros to drop their lineup of fine and expensive glass and switch. I just don’t see Fuji being successful here. They have done great with APS-C, I think, precisely because they fill a niche that the big guys have largely ignored.

          • hexx

            David, I disagree that FF is for professional photographers only. That’s a myth. It was professional photographer’s tool because of the price, so only few amateurs could justify purchase of it.

            But technology is moving fast and costs are lower than few years ago. Sure, you can fit less FF sensors on one wafer than APS-C sensors but the prices aren’t as high as they used to be.

            After all, if you remember in film days, 135 format (ff) was the standard and 120 and larger was the choice of professionals.

      • Roy

        Because it would likely kill off the X-Pro line (hybrid VF & interchangeable lenses) for those invested in the APSC system?

    • doellcus

      I like my x-pro1. I would like to replace my nikkor 105/2.8 Micro but what for? If they went to FF will they develop more x-mounts? Don’t think so.

      Bad news for me, cause I don’t need ff ;-(

  • hexx

    Dear Fuji, just do it. Do what you did when you launched X-Pro1:
    – beautiful body -> don’t change the shape, quality of buttons
    – 3 lenses at start -> 28/2.8, 50/2, 90/2.8 -> problem solved
    I’ll get on-board as soon as available, never needed any other lenses for my X-Pro1 (never bought 60mm though as I have 60mm macro from Nikon)

    • Adrian

      Why go FF when the fastest lens is an f2? Just wondering…

      • Guest
        • Nick W

          Who cares about depth of field. It’s about the size of the lens. Depth of field has equated with good photos in these brave new days of Internet forums, but they are simply photos with more background blur, nothing more.

      • hexx

        What it’s got to do with that? In terms of DoF f/2 on FF is like f/1.4 on APS-C, f/2 lens will be also smaller than f/1.4 lens. DoF would be the same and size could be kept down-ish.

        • Bob

          If 50mm f/2 on full frame is going to perform almost identically to a 35mm f/1.4 on aps-c, why not just buy aps-c and save the size, weight, and money? One of the biggest advantages of full frame is that razor thin depth of field.
          I would want Fuji’s first full frame lenses to be 35/1.4, 50/1.4, and 85/1.4. Maybe a 24/1.4, 105/2, and 135/2 as well.

          • hexx

            Nope, one of the advantages of larger formats is using longer lenses to give you wider angle of view, it’s not DoF only (or better control of it) without all the drawbacks shorter focal lengths give you (field curvature being one of them). You will never ever get the same look on APS-C 35mm lens as you get with 50mm lens on FF and that one will never ever give you the same look like 80mm lens on MF.
            Smaller DoF is both advantage and disadvantage, better control over it though is advantage.

          • Angrybird

            This is bull I’m sorry. The existence of focal length reducers in itself proves you wrong. Certainly its harder to design very good APS lenses, but getting the same look is not impossible. Field curvature is a complicated thing, generally a non issue for most ppl.

          • hexx

            Put 35mm lens on your APS-C camera, 50 on your FF and 80 on your MF camera. Set your subject at some distance and shoot that subject with all three systems with corrected aperture to achieve the same DoF. Do they look the same?

          • Wayne Summers

            A 50mm lens will always be a 50mm etc…. It does not matter how you convert it. with full frame you get the look you want without having to step too far back plus better image quality cant hurt.

        • Guest

          DOF may be the same, but light gathering capability would not.

          • hexx

            hmm… you’re right although that is never issue with the photographs is it?

            the aim is to achieve a capture which has certain angle of view and certain depth of field or, if you like, leads eye on areas of focus in your composition.

            aperture control is there for photographer to reduce or extend depth of field and shutter speed is there to either capture or freeze movement.

            if available light doesn’t allow me to achieve what i’m after i simply don’t take the shot – no point to shoot architecture/landscape (as an example) at f/1.4

    • faberryman

      35mm f2 would be a better choice than the 28mm f2.8.

  • MarcosV

    Nooooooo… Fujifilm can’t be done releasing XF lens. I want my 90/1.8.

    • D

      They won’t be done with the APS-C format. They will just be adding a full-frame option.

  • Gluon

    “Therefore new FF Fujinon lenses will be offered (initially 3-5) and rest will be Leica lenses via a detachable mount.”

    The Leica part is a Kolossal joke!

    • hexx

      Why? all leica M, Voigt M, Zeiss ZM and other M mount lenses there for you to use

      • Gluon

        And Leica R. I’ve got a few of them, but it cannot be part of Fuji’s project: they cannot tell people “we have a new system and there is no autofocus”.

        • hexx

          Hard to get, after the release of A7(R) they pretty much disappeared from the second hand market (at least here in London). If they appear, it’s for a brief moment before somebody buys them.

          Nope, I believe that if this rumour turns out to be true, Fuji will follow success of introduction of X-Pro1 and 3 primes for start (wide, standard, portrait). That’s all most of the photographers would need to satisfy them for a while. I guess wide/standard/telephoto zooms would follow. Use of adapted lenses will be only cherry on top, the same as it is possible on all mirror less cameras.

      • faberryman

        Because the OVF is useless with manual focus lenses. You have to use the EVF to focus. If you have to use the EVF to focus, why have an OVF. In other words, why by the XPro2 to use with legacy glass.

  • honeybunny

    considering the xt-1 body nearly costs as much as the a7 body a fullframe x-pro 2 will be much more expensive – that means a7r price level.

    • Michael

      Which also would mean that the sensor should either sport the same amount of pixels as the a7r to be competitive – or have some REALLY BIG innovations over the SONY camera.

  • Rory

    go home new source, you’re drunk!

    • Gluon


  • Bob

    Patrick, are you SURE this isn’t an April Fool’s joke? It really seems like it.

  • hexx

    3 groups of people here:

    1. those who applaud this news
    2. those who would feel that Fuji would abandon APS-C range and feel threatened
    3. those who understand that Fuji can and would be able to have FF and APS-C ranges and support both equally

    • nwcs

      4. those who got burned in APS by Nikon and Canon effectively neutering the system by not providing lenses and support for the crop format after the FF hype machine took off

      • Ummm…you do realize FF lenses can be used on crop sensors with no problem, right? As a matter of fact, you’d primarily be using the sweet spot of the lens!

        • Roy

          And they’d be oversized, overweight and overpriced for their intended purpose.

          • Like the $210 50mm 1.8G? Or maybe the $500 85mm 1.8G? How about the $200 35mm 1.8G??? Oh wait…that WAS a DX lens! I guess I can’t count that one. There is a a very long list of great glass for both FF and cropped sensor Nikons & Canons that are very resonably priced. You just have to look for it…

          • nwcs

            Nice cherry picked examples. I think expecting people to buy a 14-24 to get a high end wide angle on a crop sensor is overpaying quite a lot and adding bulk. Same with other FX examples: 16-35, 24-70, 24-120, etc.

          • I could “cherry pick” at least a dozen other examples as well (especially if I considering third-party lenses). That includes the 14-24mm 2.8. Maybe you didn’t know, but it was developed long before Nikon released a full frame body (and well after Nikon began developing digital SLRs)…so I’m not sure why you feel it was targeted specifically for full frame.

            It is far from being overpriced, as it’s an EXCELLENT lens.You can’t have a “high end wide angle” for cheap, full framed or not. At least not a newly designed one. Photography is the wrong field to expect “high end” for a low price as far as equipment goes. Quality costs…

          • nwcs

            I had a 14-24 and I know all about it. The AF-S version was released with the FX D3 thus it was designed AT THE SAME TIME for the purpose of FX. (

            And I could select many more examples. No matter what, why would a DX owner want higher priced, larger FX lenses to supplement their DX lens collection?

          • nwcs

            From the Nikon Press release:

            “Nikon is pleased to announce two zoom NIKKOR lenses designed to maximise the potential of the advanced new FX format D3 digital SLR camera launched today. Fully compatible with existing DX-format Nikon DSLRs as well, they share fast f/2.8 apertures across the zoom range. The ultra wide-angle AF-S NIKKOR 14-24mm f/2.8G ED and the slimline AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED, are designed for the exacting optical demands of professional use.”

            So you’re totally wrong.

          • I stand corrected, I thought the 14-24mm 2.8 was released before the D3. That said, my overall argument still stands. You CAN get a quality wide angle (as well as normal, telephoto, and zoom) specifically for a cropped sensor. There is the Nikon 12-24mm 2.8, which is just over $1000 new, but I see them used all the time for as low as $500. There is also the excellent Tokina 11-16mm 2.8 which sells for $500 new! (many reviews place it higher than the Nikon 12-24mm). There are several others, just do a little research for yourself! Nikon currently sells 18 DX specific lenses. Add in Sigma, Tamron, Tokina, Rokonin, and others, and your options are almost endless. How many lenses do you need???

          • nwcs

            You were referring to using FX lenses to supplement DX ones. First party lenses have better compatibility. See how often nikon’s changes break compatibility with third party lenses. Nikon’s DX lenses are slow super zooms mainly. What they are lacking is high performing, modern, stabilized, fast lenses -especially primes.

          • Roy

            My point was that a lens specifically designed for a crop sensor will always be smaller, lighter and cheaper (unless there’s a significant FF installed base to add to the sales volume and thus lower the price).

          • LOL

            And now take a look at 56/1.2, which is soft analog 85/1.8 with about the same size and weight, but 2.5-3 higher price tag ;)

          • Roy

            Soft: I don’t own one but just about every review I saw says otherwise.

            No idea what you mean by “analog” in this context.

            And considering that this discussion is about Fuji lenses, a comparison with other systems is irrelevant. You can’t compare prices between a niche player like Fuji and the likes of CaNikon because you’d be ignoring the economy of scale. As for equivalence between focal lengths and apertures, let’s not even go there…

    • Gluon

      And those who understood it’s an April fool’s joke.

  • hexx

    one wish though: no electronic non-sense please -> mechanically coupled aperture and focus ring, release T/S lens and some extension rings for close-up/macro

  • Jukka Saarikko

    For all the people here saying that Fuji is not going to go FF, remember that earlier rumor from “xjrumo” (who has proven to be correct before), how Fuji is going to go FF in 2014? I also remember a quote here from some Fuji personnel saying that eventually the will have to go FF. IMHO this would be great. I believe that for many (myself included) FF is the only thing holding them back from finally ditching the DSLR and going all Fuji. Also, I don’t completely understand the people who think that Fuji would some how forget APS-C if they made a FF camera. All the lenses and many different camera bodies would still be there, so people who want to stick with APS-C can do so. It’s not like the FF would take something away from APS-C (maybe just some resources from development department). I think that making X-PRO2 FF would make sense. The PRO model should definitely be FF, and there’s no point having THAT many APS-C bodies with specs so close to each other.

    Oh and if this was April Fool’s, somebody should really check their calendar, since they’re running a couple of days late.

    • D

      I think a full frame X-Pro 2 would make sense as well. Even though I am heavily invested in Fuji lenses already, I would definitely consider buying a full frame X-Pro 2.

    • Nam

      I don’t understand why people have to whine like little puppies about Fujifilm going fullframe is a bad move. Nobody force them to buy anything. Plus isn’t the current APSC system of Fuji still running well and all?

      • Roy

        So if at some point I want to upgrade from an X-Pro1 while maintaining a hybrid VF and the ability to change lenses, you know for a fact that there will be an option for this in the APSC roadmap?

  • pig_boy

    na, na, na or April fool!

    • Jukka Saarikko

      The good thing is, that nobody is forced to buy anything ;)

  • Kev

    Have a little faith guys. Fuji will be considering their existing customers moving forward in every way possible. The existing roadmap when complete (before 2015), is pretty extensive. Nobody is claiming anything about support for the existing XF mount being dropped especially as so much has already been invested in it.
    Buy into full frame if you want to, don’t if you don’t want to. Personally I’m sure the future will be exciting.

  • Per K

    I am happy for this rumor!
    1. I am reviewing my camera system ownerships for 2015.
    2. A small FF is on my wishlist
    3. The Sony FF use of the E-mount (same as for APS-C) seem not to be problem free: Difficult to design (wide angle) lenses. HQ 3rd party wide angle lenses does not perform to their potential.
    4. Fuji will make a very nice FF I am 100% sure
    5. Fuji will make lenses that matches FF I am 100% sure
    6. The right strategy for Fuji: Use same technologies on a second platform should increase profitability.
    7. I am 100% Fuji will not forget the APS-C line and its customers Two platforms is like chewing gum and walk at the same time….. :-)
    (I have NO connection to Fuji, but am very impressed by their product development and their respect for the users..)

  • nwcs

    I’ve already got the lenses I need. I won’t be buying. I was interested in an X-Pro2 that was APS sized but not FF. If they look like they’re going to abandon the crop market then I’ll abandon Fuji for another brand. I no longer need, nor want, FF sized camera bodies or lenses.

    I certainly don’t mind, or care, if they have two independent lineups but if they pull a Nikon on it by leaving behind the crop sensor format then they’ll have lost my support.

  • David

    God I hope not. I guess I’ll just shoot my X-P1 until it dies and then reevaluate the market.

    • Michael

      That sounds like a descent idea. It’s definitely already a classic camera.

  • MrGecko

    Thanks all for the speculative banter and whining this morning. I’m ROFLMFAO. If you have one of the top 4 in the X lineup then your only problem is becoming a better photographer (self included).

  • dirk

    If this discussion proves one thing, it is that there is quite a number of people who would like to buy a full frame Fuji and quite some who would like to stick to aps-c.
    If you look at the current lens line-up, including or excluding the roadmap, I doubt you will find another aps-c system with a comparable selection of very damn fine glass. So I do not see a point for the aps-c followers to complain. Maybe the FF line will even cause the prices for the aps-c lenses to go down a bit (not resale, but sales prices).
    And if you look at the focal lengths of most of the primes, you will notice they are very close to standard FF lengths. I’m not an optical engineer. But I could imagine this means they don’t have to redesign them from scratch. Maybe making some elements a bit larger might already do the trick.
    Fuji has a foot in the door now and is under observation or already high regard by many serious photographers. I can’t imagine there will ever be a much better time for fuji to start a new full frame line than the next 12 months.

  • Apollo

    I don’t understand the anxiety regarding the idea of full frame. We’ve already got a great APS system a couple years in, with new lenses to come. What is the downside of Fuji developing a full frame system? Sure they could develop more APS lenses but you’ve already got a robust line up.

    The days of legacy lenses and systems are gone. Tech moves too fast now. Don’t expect your XF 35 mm lens to be used on another body in 10 years like the Canon or Nikon. Fuji has a different path.

    I’d welcome a FF line from Fuji. Keep pushing the market forward. I don’t want a Sony camera that reminds me more of a minidisc player than a camera. I want it with Fuji’s panache.

    • Sri

      For me… Sony is a big joke in photography !! A7 is a tech toy.. They come no where near to fuji in terms of commitment to their customers… Sony releases more cameras than lenses.. Reliability quotient matters !

      • e

        as an owner of a fuji xpro1, x100s, fuji gf670, fuji gw699ii, m6, canon f1, nikonf100, d800, d700, and a sony a7 i use with leica glass…i have no idea why you would call/compare it to a tech toy.

        i use this along side my work with a d800. it is extremely capable. sure i miss some design elements and ergonomics of the xpro1, but the sony allows me access to my aperture ring, shutter dial (on rear top) and iso without going into a menu.

        i love my xpro1….but only for its optical viewfinder/classic ergonomics..

        • e

          correction fuji gw690ii.

      • e

        btw, i agree with you that fuji’s commitment to its customers is amazing.

    • Greg

      This is true. My only fear is the possibility of it diluting their APS-C line, I’d rather seem them dedicate all their resources to an excellent APS-C lineup.
      I would hate to see the FF line become the premium line and the place for all of their innovation/premium features. It would be very disappointing if the APS-C line were to become the entry level system with the sole purpose of getting people into the system and then up-selling them to FF line. That is my fear and reason for hesitation.
      I love the X-T1 but there are still major areas for improvement with the current line up. Most notably flash system, shutter speed, and basic video capabilities. These issues need to be resolved before Fuji can consider the current line complete and move on to the next thing.

  • elren

    I hope the rumor isn’t true. Although I wait for the 56/1.2 here in Europe I wouldn’t buy one if I have to buy all my prime lenses for a FF body again in a few months. I think FUJI will keep the organic sensor development as they told us before.

  • fm-NYC

    Happy to hear the rumor, but I’m sure it will be priced out of my range.

  • Alex Reusch

    APS organic sensor please!!! Full Frame would be a good bye for me from the Fuji world. I invested too much in lenses for my X-Pro1. This would be a direct hit in my face…

    • e

      why would it be a direct hit. Are you buying lenses to use only with the idea of using them with a non released product rumor??? I own an xpro1 with xf and m mount lenses that i enjoy using more than my d800 i use for work.

      how can you predict what fuji will offer or not offer?

      why would fuji abandon aps-c just because they may go full
      frame too?

      nikon/canon have both full frame and cropped body lenses.

      • Bob

        But for Nikon at least, once they came out with full frame cameras (2009 D3), all development of high-end crop-sensor lenses stopped. It was just plastic consumer crop lenses after that. With Sony, the same thing happened with both DSLRs and NEX. No more, or very weak, R&D into lenses for crop cameras. This is what people are afraid of if Fuji goes full frame.

  • Brent

    Doesn’t make any sense to me, They have spent a ton of money making the current mount, and are in the process of releasing the 16-50 and 50-140 (note the APS-C focal lengths) pro zooms… it would absolutely cannibalize the sales of those lenses if they released a Full Frame ICL camera,

    This rumor sounds like its just a fanboy who wants to shoot leica hoping for an alternative to buying a used m9

    • sevye31

      i totally agree

  • john

    i don’t think this is real, if it is real they should consider investing in AF-motor technology: Nobody wants a Canon L-lens-sized lens on their light, sexy and sleek Fuji-body….

    • hexx

      if they could move AF motor somehow into body and use in body image stabilisation instead of stuffing lenses with this tech, that could keep the size down.

      • nwcs

        Other than the screwdrive lens mounts what other AF tech does that?

        • hexx

          no other as far as i know (which doesn’t mean much :) ) but it would allow smaller lenses

          • nwcs

            It would certainly be innovative if someone could figure out a way without re-introducing the screwdrive.

  • JohnUK

    Just a bit naughty on Fuji’s part. If the rumour is true, their so called flagship X product will never be brought up to the performance standard of the less expensive APS offerings i.e. the XE2 and the XT1. Bit of a kick in the face of those of us that have invested in a lot of XF glass in anticipation.

    • hexx

      (…and don’t want either X-E2 or X-T1)

    • SLRist

      I don’t understand why someone would buy lenses in anticipation of a new camera coming out. That’s totally crazy. What are you planning to do with the lenses in the meantime?

      • Roy

        I think he meant that he is trying to build a system by gradually acquiring lenses and trusting that they can be used in the long run on Fuji’s top tier cameras. When the FF system takes over that position though, it’s anyone’s guess how many new developments won’t trickle down the APSC line.

        • John UK


  • Dominique_R

    Boy, I feel SOOOO happy and vindicated right now, to have been right about full-frame since the middle of 2014…! :o) :o) :o)

    • nwcs

      So you’ve gone back in time to tell us the news that you were right in a couple months?

      • Dominique_R

        Tsk, tsk. Don’t be jealous of my foresight. Nor of my good memory. ;o)

        • Roy

          You might want to re-read your original post. It’s indicative of hindsight, not foresight.

          • Dominique_R

            How could it be so? Last year I said (and I was one of the very few people to do so at the time) that the next X-Pro would most likely be full-frame. Many people loudly disagreed and questioned my judgement, technical knowledge, good common sense, etc.

            Now, it very much looks like I could be proven right. Therefore, what I demonstrated at the time is called foresight. In other words, I was right while all of you guys who advocated APS-C-sized sensor, were wrong.

          • Roy

            “middle of 2014” is not last year…

          • Dominique_R

            Yes. Obviously, you yourself made the correction without the need for me to tell you, right?

          • Calking

            News flash Dominique:
            This is an unsubstantiated rumor by an anonymous source. Fuji didn’t announce anything, but about the time last year when you had your vision about the future, Fuji was telling everyone they would NOT be manufacturing FF anytime soon.

          • Dominique_R

            Right. I’ll bet you, however, that this new source will turn out to be right and accurate, because it simply just makes sense. And as regards what Fuji “was telling everyone”, the operative words there were “anytime soon”. They might have wanted to say that at the time, in order not to undermine the sales of high end APS-C cameras, while simultaneously entertaining serious thoughts about going FF —thoughts that seem to begin to take genuine shape now, and will not materialize until a moment when “anytime soon” can arguably be said to be well over and done with…

          • faberryman

            Why? Because some clown anonymously submitted a wild ass guess to FujiRumors?

        • Dominique_R

          Of course, I meant 2013 in the message above. You will have corrected.

  • LetThereBeLight

    Although the details sound strange (“rest will be Leica lenses via a detachable mount”.) a FF X-Pro2 is definitely a possibility and sounds like an obvious move. And when Fuji launches the FF camera hopefully they create it with a lens selection similar to what was available when the X-Pro1 launched. Nice set of focal lengths and fast primes! That should kick us off to a great start… In the mean time: Now are we supposed to start attacking the sony rumor blogs and tell them how the Fuji FF is going to ruin their lives when it comes out and destroy everything they know?

  • LenLight

    What ever format, it will need to be the organic sensor ( to gain an market edge for that line of camera. What every photographer lusts for is greater dynamic range and higher sensitivity (1.2X to deliver clearer images in low light).

    • e

      it’s good to know you know what all photographers lust after. :|

  • Lighty

    This is great news! Why can’t fuji have an apsc and ff linenup like other manufacturers?

    Their apsc line up is perfect;
    From the x-a1, x-m1, x-e2 and finally x-t1.
    You have small rangefinder size to slr.

    The x-pro size and optical viewfinder always felt more for ff.

    If their aps bodies go down in price, we all win.

  • spatznick

    OK all, return all the discounted lens you purchased in the last month. They won’t fit anymore…

    • PRL

      Got to agree, why would Fuji discount so heavily to suck new customers in then bounce FF in earlier than they need to

  • Wilson

    No matter how good are the fuji x-series so far, they are cropped sensors. I believe that I’m not the only one out there who cannot resist the temptation of FF, and holds my pocket tight against investing much in the apsc system. Especially with A7/A7r are already in the market and received positive feedback, it’s time for fuji to seriously consider the FF before it’s too late. A fuji x FF with in-body stabilization is a dream camera for me :).

    • Bob

      Yeah I wish Fuji had done in-body stabilization from the get-go. So stupid not to do that when you are building a system from the ground up. Old system? Sure, do in-lens, because you can make people pay for new lenses to get the stabilization. But a brand new system? Go in-body, and get it on all the lenses.

      • dirk

        I would always vote for no Image stabilization at all. That is how you maximize your image quality. Moving parts always require tolerances.
        IS in some lenses and your have a choice at least if you go for quality or convenience.

        Ever wonder why zeiss doesn’t do IS or even AF for their high quality glass?

        • Calking

          No need to wonder…AF and IS would make their already large and heavy and very expensive glass even more so, reducing sales volume. I don’t think it has anything to do with tolerances.

    • Roy

      A FF sensor is also cropped.

      • No, it is FF in its film size. There are large format films that dwarf 35mm film, but they are each FF in their own format. Crop is only crop when when the film size is smaller than the original size intended for the mount.

        • Just Picky

          Yes but still half the size of MF.
          What is the point in having a FF sensor when its as heavy as any DSLR?

          Just because its based upon the ‘old’ film size doesn’t mean its the better format. And what do you want to do with 56Megapixels at ISO 104600?

          How often do you print large and how often do you want to shoot black cats while its new moon?

          • Well, MF is much much much smaller than half the size of 4×5 film which is still nothing next to extra large formats. The argument that there is no true FF until you make 3 metre tall apertures for an image to be taken, is tiring.

            The reason I want FF is that I shoot legacy glass exclusively. I shoot in the studio (still life) and use Nikon, or with slide adapters, LF lenses. The larger the sensor, the closer the final image is to the intended film size/focal length. Obviously LF lenses will never be saturated by digital sensors- at least not in our lifetimes.

            And I rarely shoot over 3200 iso, and even still, rarely over 400. So I don’t care about high ISO. I care about my lenses acting as closely to their intended film size as possible. I don’t print large, but my customers do. They print banners and streamers, some of which are two metres across. I don’t think the difference between FF and APS-C would be huge, or even reasonably visible, but when shooting, an 85mm lens is completely different on APS-C and FF.

            And every time, I prefer it when not cropped out. Again LF lenses are another story. They aren’t made for specific image circles. Some are massive. Some barely cover their film size.

        • Roy

          It doesn’t make sense comparing sensor and film sizes for a system that never used film to begin with.

          I was responding to the suggestion that the current Fuji sensors are inferior to FF for being cropped. But by that reasoning, FF is equally inferior to MF, which is then inferior to LF.

          My point is that FF is continually chased as a be-all and end-all solution. As in “once we have FF, all will be good”. Whereas in the grand scheme of things, it’s just another format and in the post-film era, just as “cropped” as any but the largest sensor available.

          • APS-C is rather similar in size to APS Kodak film. In its respective mount, an APS-C sensor is FF. In a FF mount, FF is FF. IN a 4×5 mount, 4×5 film is FF. It’s all completely relative.

            FF is only inferior to MF in size. But they aren’t comparable as mounts. MF is designed to accept larger film sizes and therefore has a larger mount. Today’s MF sensors are cropped against regular MF film. Today’s 35mm FF is the same size roughly as 35mm film. It is FF.

            APS and APS-C were made as compromise formats for size or because technology was either too expensive or too far behind the curve of film sizes. FF is big news because 35mm film (FF size) is basically the standard in small format photography.

            APS-C was every only a stop-gap. It was put into FF mounts and mounted originally onto lenses made for larger film circles. So we have people hoping one day to use the lenses they used yonks ago on modern cameras. Had there never been the rift between technology and desire, we would have shot on 35mm sensors back in the early days of digital and this FF conversation would never have taken place.

            That’s all to say that the mount determines what is cropped or not. An APS-C Nikon F camera uses a cropped sensor. A FF Nikon F camera does not. Fujfilm’s APS-C X cameras were designed around APS-C and are FF as such, but again, APS-C was used because 35mm digital was either too expensive or didn’t offer what the designers wanted.

            It’s all relative. I’d much rather use 35mm lenses on a 35mm sensor. Having to use a go-between until technology catches up is really a drag.

          • Roy

            “In its respective mount, an APS-C sensor is FF.”

            Isn’t that what it all boils down to? The Fuji X system was designed around an APS-C sensor. This is its baseline since there are no legacy FF lenses available for this system. Hence it is a FF system in and of itself.

            If we stop referring to post-film tech using film nomenclature, then the whole issue disappears. Then sensors will just have absolute measurements instead of “crops” or “multiplication factors” compared to film sizes that have no relevance for these systems.

          • But you can’t dodge the fact that technology is what has brought us here.

            And the fact that people compare a 35/1,4 on APS-C to a 50/1,4 on FF. It’s all sorts of mechanical and philosophical nonsense that has no baseline. The baseline always has been and always will be 35mm until the small camera is done away with.

            Saying that an X-Pro 1 is smaller than an SLR also is ridiculous language. Overall system size can only feasibly be judged with comparably fast lenses. A 35/1,4 lens on APS-C shouldn’t be compared to a 50/1,4. And even still, comparing a dSLR to a current mirrorless isn’t fair. dSLRs have been developed to do everything and more than their SLR progeny.

            Simple SLRs died long ago.

            As both of have been saying, we are back to equivalence. FF 35mm doesn’t require larger lenses than APS-C. If you keep equivalence the deciding factor, APS-C and FF are the same size in both body and optics. But only one amply uses older lenses and only one is less stringent on lens design on account of its larger pixels.

            That is FF. In every way except for reach and maybe writing speed, FF is a better standard and a better system. I’m happy with my X-T1 and X-Pro 1 but only as they are stopgap solutions.

          • Roy

            “In every way except for reach and maybe writing speed, FF is a better standard and a better system.”

            And in every such way, MF is even better. And LF better yet.

            The two main reasons that most people don’t buy MF/LF is bulk and cost. And those are the exact two reasons why APS-C and M43 sensors were developed. I don’t think that anyone ever disputed the fact that a larger sensor (all else being equal) trumps in terms of IQ. But that has never been the point of developing them.

            The lure of FF is that it has now become affordable to a significant chunk of photographers whereas MF and LF is still out of reach. Other than that, FF is not the magic formula people make it out to be. And with the advance in IQ development across the board, its advantages are largely irrelevant for most practical purposes (i.e. posting on the web and printing up to moderate sizes).

            I’m not following your reasoning as to comparative body sizes. Mirrorless bodies are smaller than DSLRs if not for anything but their lack of a mirror box and match or even exceed them in terms of features.

            The point again is that these smaller cameras have reached a level of maturity and offer IQ that is more than sufficient for a lot of people who have so far been purchasing DSLRs for those reasons. Not because the sensor was bigger, but because the IQ was better than that of small compacts.

  • My only problem with this will be the size! the body will be bigger, lenses will be bigger and heavier, and everything will make you think why did you leave your SLR in the first place?!
    I always felt the X system is the sweet spot between size and image quality.

    • hexx

      The first FF mirror less camera, Leica M, and the second, Sony A7 are both smaller than FF dSLR -> there’s no mirror box, that’s why they are smaller. What makes you believe that Fuji’s camera would be larger?

      • You got a point with Leica, but even if they were able to get the same body size as leica M and Sony A7, did you check the sony lenses?! it makes no sense to me, the system will get bigger and heavier for sure!
        Maybe an FF X200 will make more sense to me! but we will see.

        • hexx

          I’d love FF X200 (still have X100, no point for me to upgrade to X100S – the same res/sensor as in my X-Pro1), been looking at RX1 from Sony but not having built-in VF is deal breaker for me. Yes, you can attach one but it can also slip out of the hot shoe and it’s quite pricy accessory.

      • They aren’t smaller merely because there isn’t a mirror box. That is ONE of the reasons. If you look at old pre-digital Nikons, there were 35mm SLRs that were smaller than today’s M or the A7r.

        It’s not just the box. It’s all the unnecessary (for most people) electronics and redundancies in there left over from many hardware iterations.

        If Fujifilm wanted to make a really small system, they’d eliminate AF, or use a body-focusing system and keep all but aperture-controlling electronics out of the lenses. That wouldn’t fly however, as AF is the norm.

        The size of Sony’s lenses has to do with many things, some to do with Zeiss lenses, which are hardware corrected without using as many high-tech lenses. Even Leica’s modern lenses are getting big. If you look at old 35/2 M or LTM lenses, you’d be surprised that you could fit several in today’s 35/2 ASPH, and more than that in the Fujifilm 35/1,4. Today’s lenses are just big. That’s it.

    • Wilson

      I’ll be happy enough if the body is similar size to the A7. Additionally if they can move the image stabilization in-body it can help reduce the lens size.

      • Phil

        True only for telephoto lens but who builds IS into wide-angle/medium glasses. Nope, it’s the diameter of FF which makes the glasses heavy and bulky.

        • peevee

          “True only for telephoto lens but who builds IS into wide-angle/medium glasses.”

          Sony E 10-18 OSS. Every normal zoom have stabilization. And with sensor resolutions growing way beyond 1000 lines per picture height, AND with importance of video growing, stabilization MUST be in every lens. Of course it is better to have it in body, with rotational and translational stabilization too.

    • Green Banana

      Yes a FF platform will be bigger than APS-C but FF mirrorless platforms will still be a lot smaller than their DSLR counterparts.

    • SteveHood

      The XPro1 was already bigger anyways. Body size likely won’t change much except for lens size.

  • jg

    If this decision is true, it is a bad decision. Fujifilm does not have the money and engineering resources to develop a FF mirrorless system from scratch AND continue to develop it’s APS-C X system. Camera operations have been losing money for Fujifilm for quite a while; I can’t see Fujifilm’s board green-lighting this project without significant cuts somewhere. The CaNikon duopoly is too firmly entrenched in FF. Even CaNikon are struggling to make a profit, so now you FF fanbois want Fujifilm to spend millions in R&D to compete for the FF table scraps with Sony? The only way going to FF makes any financial sense to the Fujifilm Board is if future development of the APS-C X system is terminated. I’ve seen this movie before and it doesn’t end well. Fellow X users that switched from Nikon D300(s) know what I mean (That new D400, an updated 17-55mm 2.8 with VRII and a wide angle prime will be released any day now!). Fujifilm found a niche with one competitor (now zero competitors since Sony dropped out) and it is successfully exploiting it. With continued development of their APS-C bodies and XF lenses, it could eventually turn a profit. The mere existence of rumors like this could kill their sales. I’m certainly not going to spend any more money on what could be an orphan system. This will kill Fujifilm in the long run.

    This decision is great for measurbators and fanbois; it’s not so great for those that actually use their cameras and thought they had found a stable and growing ecosystem to invest in.

    • Jukka Saarikko

      That’s a bit harsh, don’t you think? The people wanting to change from FF DSLR to FF Fuji system are not actually using their cameras, and are just “fanboys”?

      • hexx

        somebody hasn’t taken meds yet, that’s how I read that rant

        • Roy

          Somebody is unable to compose a factual rebuttal to a dissenting opinion and therefore resorts to ad hominem blurbs to discredit the source, that’s how I read your comments.

          • hexx

            glad you at least read them

      • Calking

        No … He said “fanbois” … This is the French version of Fanboys and therefore more refined and culturally liberal.

    • hexx

      oh here we go, Fuji’s CEO here

    • I agree.

      What most people are missing about the whole FF thing is that the two major players in that arena (Canon and Nikon) built their DSLR systems upon their existing 35mm film systems. On the other hand, companies like Fujifilm and Olympus, who had 35mm film systems, dropped those systems and basically started afresh.

      Another factor is that digital sensor technology has totally eroded the requirement of a imaging medium (such as film) of a specific size. An 8MP sensor resolves less detail than a 20MP sensor of the same size; which is totally different from the situation with film.

      What I’m saying is that there is no need for Fujifilm to ever enter the FF market segment. They have no legacy there.

    • Han

      Fuji as a company is much larger than Nikon. They have the financial backing needed.

    • deng

      Fujifilm’s camera division is like 2% of the whole company when it comes to money.
      They can literally throw millions there for their own amusement as long as it helps their marketing in other fields.
      For your information – they lose money on cameras and lenses for 10 years straight now.

  • Phi

    Love the rumors. That’s why I’m waiting until Xmas 2014 to get half price on used X-T1 and all its glasses. Please sell them off, I love these Fuji lenses.

    • Calking

      AMEN brutha and hallelujah!!!! Glory be to us who wait for the zealous to ditch their perfectly fine gear in the never-ending quest for hardware nirvana!

      Imagine all those lovely, near-mint condition APS-c primes and zooms at 35% – 55% off what they cost retail? CAN’T WAIT no matter WHAT the xp2 turns out to be!

  • Paul

    Owning both a Fuji X series body, and a Canon 5D III, I can’t say that I see a whole of difference in image quality between the two. I’m sure others who obsess on this type of thing do, but frankly, it is splitting hairs. The only true advantage I see to full frame is you get a wider field of view. Chill out and shoot pixel peepers! I love the X system because its smaller, lighter, and cheaper. I have a feeling that the FF is just that, a rumor, but that the organic sensor is is going to be what we get.

    • Calking

      Amen brutha.

  • Allweather

    Despite the naysayers, I strongly believe this is the right direction for Fuji. The “Pro” line needs to be significantly different from the Xe and Xt lines. That means different sensor, different lenses, and a different user base. They will not be competing lines as todays XPro, XT and Xe are. Fuji have already won over a good market segment from other manufacturers in their APSC line, but these are mostly amateur enthusiast. The remaining market they have not captured is the hardcore pro. Those still unwilling to give up the D800, 5D3, Leica M etc. There are plenty there ready to go and Fuji has built a solid reputation now for quality and customer service, so I suspect there are many watching and waiting to jump. The Xt1 will still be a supported line for those who value the weight savings and general Xtrans experience. The new XPro will be significantly higher priced and will b valued by those who need to print big/have FF DOF/want some more exclusivity. I suspect the main money maker will be the APSC lines, but the new FF line will increase market awareness and put Fuji well and truly in the Pro field as well.
    It is a totally logical business move. All the other big players have APSC and FF lines, so why should fuji exclude a certain user segment. I believe if and when Fuji do FF lines, they will do it better than the rest and probably at a better price as well. Most of those who buy into the FF lineup will probably also buy into the APSC line as a back-up/lightweight option, so win/win.
    I think this is a very credible rumor and one we will see in the next 6 months.

    • Kelvin


    • Calking

      Somehow the term “very credible rumor” seems an oxymoron to me.

    • Frederic

      Agree with this..but FF is only part of the image chain…no doubt lenses will be great, but the big plus for FF for me is micro-contrast & resolution, delivered if possible with 16 bit uncompressed raw files. Will they stay with current x-trans incarnation? Big problem was and remains raw developer.

      • Jon Ingram

        Yeah, I hope lightroom 6 finally gets it right this year. Adobe should be the front-runner but sadly they are WAY behind the smaller companies in their ability to demosaic the fuji raws.

    • Panny Cakestove

      What you find ‘credible’ I find very hard to believe.
      Its nothing more then a late april fools day joke.

    • Wrong. The whole concept of having two different “systems” for “pros” and “amateurs” is counter-productive. Canon, who are big in this concept, has so severely crippled their “amateur” line for fear that “pros” will start using it instead of their (Canon’s) perceived “pro” line of lenses and cameras, that these lenses and cameras are basically unusable beyond a certain point.

      Also, differentiation between lines based on labels leads to consumer anger. For myself, as a professional photographer, I don’t need f/1.4 lenses. But I do need lenses with excellent performance. So, does it make sense for a company to manufacture a 35mm lens in both f/1.4 and f/3.5, with the same high quality … or is it better to make the f/3.5 lens inferior to prevent “pros” from using it, instead of the f/1.4 version?

  • Coldplayer

    This rumor is wrong!
    Currently there are no plans for FF.

    • SteveHood

      That was last month.

    • Calking

      Agreed. Nothing like stirring the pot now that there’s nothing new to be imminently released.

  • dcisive

    You can see the mess that exists currently in the FF arena. I’m not so sure Fuji would be wise to jump into that mess. Besides having to revamp and add a bunch of FF lenses would surely put a strain on the R&D of the current product line. It would figure I finally got all the lenses assembled for my new X-T1 and they would go and throw a wrench into the works.

  • AMJ

    It’s not about quality anymore , a point-shoot camera woth 1″ sensor is more than Enough for 95% of moments… now it’s the look that matters , the look is different in FF or medium format. I wish they ditch the FF and goes to medium format straight !

  • Locke42

    Son of a bitch, I literally just got a Sony A7.

    Oh well. Since the X-T1 costs $1300, I somehow doubt they could match the $1400 price that I got the A7 for anyway.

  • ronin

    Prediction: Upon release Fuji will claim it has the fastest autofocus of any camera.

  • Xpro10

    So now that this rumor is out who will keep buying the existing Fuji cameras and lenses? Not me. I was waiting for an APSC xpro2. And anyone who is wanting a FF Fuji (to magically make them a good photographer) wont be buying anything now.
    Perhaps someone figured out how to slow down the sales of the popular Xt1. I don’t believe it, but Fuji better let the world know the truth now or risk losing APSC sales and even people abandoning Fuji.
    Leica is coming out with an APSC system this month. Hmmmm…

  • XPRO1

    My thought is that fuji won’t release an interchangeable lens camera with FF sensor before releasing a X100 version of it, might be photokina???

    • DouglasGottlieb

      That’s been the history, so a good theory. And Sony might have a curved sensor RX2R by then that will cost twice as much and be half as pretty.

  • DouglasGottlieb

    Maybe the “organic sensor” will exceed FF in light gathering and dynamic range, offering “medium format” level performance in an APSC sized array. That would make everyone happy. I’d get one in M43 size and keep my tiny Oly primes and super fast focus but will likely always envy Fuji’s style and dials. :) It sounds like unicorns and science fiction, but isn’t the foveon tech said to do this already?

  • Seriously, is this a late April Fools joke?

    Although I’m intrigued by a FF X-Pro camera from Fuji, it doesn’t make any sense.

    1, They would practically negate all the wonderful XF lenses for all their APS-C cameras. Start all over, essentially?

    2, This would piss off a lot of current (& past) Fuji X camera owners who have already been waiting too long for a new X-Pro camera only to be disappointed all the $$ they spent investing in the APS-C lenses will be useless for their patience

    They should stick to the format they have and improve that instead of trying to start a new game which they’d be newbies at and go through a plethora of trying to get the formula and tech right, again.. there’s no way it’ll be successful off the bat and you’ll have to be the guinee pigs and wait a few more generations till they perfect a FF X camera. They haven’t even gotten the current X cameras completely right.. they’re almost there and so close, but not quite there. Get the current X cameras up to par in all respects and don’t make people regret investing and believing in Fuji X camera system by making them start over… though, I think if Fuji says jump, the people will jump, regardless.

    Anyways, early rumors, hope there is an X-Pro2, not so hopeful it’ll be FF, though. In the mean time.. I’d like to add some more salt to that order of fries, please.

  • Kyriacos

    I hope this is a joke. I know i can still use my current equipment and still enjoy them, but honestly i just bought 3 new lenses with the impression that they are going to release an update to the X-Pro1. I really hope they never ever release an FF version. Don’t make me re-think my investment in the system cause honestly i am not far off from selling everything and just going MFT which at least keeps at it with the MFT sensor and lenses, or maybe just maybe the Sony or even go back to DSLR.

    • Calking

      The XT-1 is probably adequate for your purposes until fuji develops whatever the next advent of APS-c will be. I don’t understand why you’d think a rumor like this should have you completely bailing to another format. Best to just take photos and let the manufacturers do what they will….it’s a given they’re going to have upgrades to upgrades coming.

      • Kyriacos

        It’s actually more than adequate… I am using an XE-1 since the day it came out and i am more than happy with it.

        Seems to me that we are forgetting that not everyone cares about ISO and more megapixels. I want a better viewfinder in an X-Pro1, a hybrid viewfinder something that the XT-1 doesn’t have…

        Bailing to another format? Bailing to another company i meant :) heh (far fetched but..)
        Fuji released a bunch of cameras the past year cheaper X-mounts and still nothing on the camera that started it all with the hybrid viewfinder. I had an expectation that i will get an updated hybrid-viewfinder camera that’s why i bought more X lenses.

        And do keep the upgrades coming … and let them do what they do … and ill keep on taking photos. It’s a comment about the rumor and has nothing to do with enjoying my current camera and taking photos..

        • Calking

          I too have the XE-1 and it’s great. I assumed you meant micro 4/3 by “MFT”, which isn’t the same as APS-C.

  • Antoine B.

    I read the comments but still can’t really understand why there are so many people angry about this… if you have already a full set of XF lenses, hopefully you like it and did not buy it only because there was no FF!
    And I am sure you can count on Fuji to continue improving the APS-C range.

    A X-Pro1s would have been little more than a X-E2 or X-T1, so at least now Fuji opens the options for those who were crying on this same blog not long ago to get a FF line-up.

    And if you sell everything you have, I am sure you’ll find good buyers :-)

  • LoveMyXPro

    Not interested – APS-C is where it’s at – best balance of IQ and size. Only interested in more awesome lenses… ;-)
    …and maybe an XPro-2 at some stage, but APS-C.

  • john

    I can’t comprehend why so many people sing praises when sony came out with a7/ a7r but now criticize when Fuji wanna go FF.

    • Calking

      Frankly there was and remains a lot of disdain for sony’s A-series due to an almost non-existent FF lens selection. What’s more, the A-series wasn’t Sonys first foray into FF … They had the RX1R out for quite some time before launching the A-series.

      • And (A7r owner here) the nasty interface, poor build quality, wretched start up time… and on and on. What it boils down to is that Sony brought out a camera that really was nothing more than a sensor.

        When Fujifilm make an FF camera, they will make an FF camera, meant to be used by people who use cameras and not tech pots. The X-Pro 1 is unbearably slow sometimes, but is never ever as slow as the A7r is except for write times.

        I love the images the A7r outputs, but very little if anything else.

  • sidtw

    That rumor seems to be a trick of a competitor or anybody envying the good sales figures of the XT-1: if a FF X-Pro2 would be in reach (say 6 months from now), that would stop some people from buying an XT-1. That’s the evil logic here.

    • Calking

      Sounds logical as hell to me, especially considering Fuji’s prior claim that they won’t be delving into the FF market for the very reasons many are citing herein.

    • Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

  • Will

    I am a little frustrated reading these comments.

    With all the previous posts people have been begging for full frame relentlessly and now it is here people are frustrated by it.

    The way I see it is Fujifilm are still going to be putting out awesome stuff for the XF range and supporting it. (they are still releasing firmware updates for the X100)

    Does that mean they are going to forget about their crop frame line ?

    No it doesn’t , Fujifilm are just listening to their customers who for the last 2 years since the release of the X-Pro1 have been screaming black and blue for a full frame rangefinder.

    If you wish to trade up to A full frame that’s great but does that mean your X-T1 ,X-Pro 1 or X-E2 is instantly going to drop dead and start creating horrible photos?


    • Calking

      This is NOTHING more than an unsubstantiated rumor at this point, so FF is not “here” yet. It sure makes for one heck of a lively debate though.

    • Bruce Dyke

      You take this rumour as true.
      But taking up a completely new production line for FF lenses is pretty costly. And as Fuji is not making money on their camera line its hard to believe they will already step into to the FF market.

    • Jon Ingram

      What you have here is a case of complaining always being the loudest. No FF?… people whine and moan about it… FF Rumor? People whine and moan about it. The happy are often silent (and off taking pictures somewhere).

  • Jon Ingram

    Here is my problem with full-frame mirror-less: LENS SIZE. Sure, the A7/A7r are very light and capable cameras, but the lenses are quite large and heavy, and not that fast in general. You end up losing the “full-frame advantage” because your smaller lenses are slower (in aperture), and your larger lenses are so large you might as well be using a Dslr.
    Fuji has something really special with their current line-up. They have very fast glass and a very compact system with superb image quality.
    I don’t really mind if Fuji goes full frame as long as they continue to support thier current line-up. If Fuji were to do FF mirrorless right, they would need to put a priority on making the glass as fast and small as possible, then I might consider it (but their are limits of physics). But for now, APS-C mirrorless seems to be the sweet spot for size to image quality ratio. For full frame, Nikon Dslr’s are where it’s at. Hard to beat the D800.

    • FF lenses are only large because they lack a lot of solid mechanical engineering. Replacing focus helicoids with motors and large barrels to fit in all the electronics is part of what makes a lens large. There are many disadvantages to a camera-based AF screw system, but the lenses are much smaller and often, lighter.

      Fujifilm’s current lenses are larger often than the lenses they equate in FF terms because they have to be made in more complex wide configurations. 35mm lenses usually are larger than their equivalent speed 50mm lenses. Hence the 35/1,4 XF being rather a beast.

      For FF, Leica is where it is at for amazing build quality and amazingly compact lens size. Old Nikon cameras/lenses weren’t much larger than their Leica counterparts, but modern Nikons are beasts.

      Considering that the current 35/1,4 works out to the equivalent of a 50/2 (ish), there’s no reason for the FF Fujifilm lenses to be large. Nikon’s 50/1,8 is small and light. Their older AFD version is tiny next to the Fujifilm. And both are FF.

      Apart from the pancake XF lenses, Fujiflm FF lenses could be, by gaining narrower fields of view (and if they stayed with current speed/DOF equivalences), they may actually be smaller than their APS-C counterparts.

      • dirk

        I don’t think you can make a 50mm/1.4 for FF that is smaller than a comparable 35mm/1.4 for APS-C.
        I guess SLR wideangle lenses are usually larger than rangefinder designs because they are more complex due to the retro focus design, where the rear focal plane has to be between the rear element and the sensor/film.
        But once you are below the flange distance, even leica glass gets larger. Look at the Leica Summilux 21mm/1.4 ASPH for instance. Huge and heavy.
        I guess the closer you are to the flange distance with your focal length, the more compact you can make the lenses.

        • 35 is almost always larger than a comparable 50, when comparing same generation production. That said, we are talking about a 35/1,4 that produces images that look like they were taken on a 50/2, not a 50/1,4. If it were a 50/1,4 they should look like, the lens must be a 35/0,95 or so.

          Yes, modern Leica glass is huge and heavy. It is optically corrected up the wazzo, unlike many older Leica lenses.

          There are a number of very compact SLR lenses, too. It just matters what sacrifices you are willing to make.

          • dirk

            “35 is almost always larger than a comparable 50” only if your flange distance is larger than 35mm. New leica glass is only large below 28mm.

          • Indeed. It’s all to say that modern lenses, especially at APS-C, have a tendency to be larger than they need to be at equivalent apertures.

          • dirk

            but keep in mind none of those have AF or an electronic aperture built into the lens!

          • nwcs

            Or stabilization. Not just apples and oranges but apples and graham crackers.

          • dirk

            We are talking primes here. And don’t you dare to ask for stabilization im primes!

          • Jon Ingram

            Well… I would love the Fuji 23 1.4 to have stabilization…, you could shoot wide open at 1/20 a second with very sharp images… a low light machine!

          • I love that one, too. Although, for short lenses, I don’t get it, if people need it and the extra size/weight/expense, whatever. But long lenses, I’d hate to be without it if on assignment. Personal stuff I never care.

          • No, they are still lenses designed to work on cameras. It is apples to apples, but two different type of apples. I’m not comparing lenses to tyres.

          • Indeed. I haven’t owned an AF lens in years so I don’t think about that. That said, screwdriven AF lenses can be as small as regular AF lenses. But no one makes them anymore, which is a shame.

            And obviously, some people need stabilisation, and some professionals need it, too.

      • Jon Ingram

        @ ohm. Thanks for your thoughtful response to my post. I don’t disagree that FF lenses CAN be made smaller, but it seems that companies these days sacrifice size for resolving power, fast/silent AF, and image stabilization. I, for one, enjoy all of these features. I would love to see new mirror-less FF lenses that are small, fast, high resolution, and sport some sort of image stabilization, but I’m not sure if it’s possible. I suppose one way, as you eluded to, would be to implement in-camera image stabilization with a very modern screw-drive AF mechanism. If they did this, they could probably make much smaller lenses with high optical quality and the sacrifices would be minimal. I own some of the older FF Nikkor lenses that are small, such as 50 f/1.8D, 30 f/2. In fact, even the modern non-screw drive 85 1.8G is very light (less than 13 oz.). I have to say though, the 50 1.8D and 30 f/2D are tiny and fantastic but they are definitely no where close to today’s optical standards in terms of resolution and aberration.

        • It’s funny that today we have less choice than before. Back in the rangefinder days, there were 1,4; 2,0; 2,8; 3,5; and slower lenses available in many popular focal lengths. Today, when people have more money and when lenses are more affordable, we have generally only one speed, two if we are lucky. Which is a shame.

          I’d love for Fujifilm to work on a very small/compact line of excellent prime lenses at speeds from 2,8-4 with small filter threads; lenses that are great for long hiking trips where optical quality doesn’t suffer, but speed and size do. Comparing my Leica m39 filter lenses to current Fujifilm lenses in the same speed, or equivalent speed over equivalent focal lengths is eye opening. The Leica lenses are sooo much smaller.

          My favourite Nikkor 50 is the 50/2. It is quite a bit sharper wide open than the Fujifilm 35/1,4 but hasn’t got as nice an OOF rendering.

          My 50/2 Summicron M is from the 1970’s but easily bests the Fujifilm 35 in all but OOF, which is horrible. I’m actually going to trade down to an earlier 50/2 Summicron that had a less sharp open rendering but lacks the doughnut OOF rendering

          The discussion between you and me shows that people value different things in lenses. I wish that Fujifilm would see that and also deliver compact lenses as well as great fast/semi fast lenses as per today.

          • Jon Ingram

            Well said

  • Sponge Bob

    That post was probably send to you on april 1st? Wasn’t it?
    Very unlikely especially the ‘leica’ part is most unlikely.

  • Ali

    i wait for the organic apsc size sensor, not any FF!!!!!!

    • Same here, Organic APSC sensor with improved noise handling and slight increase in resolution… say 20-24mp. I don’t want to go back to carrying a full frame camera with heavy lenses.

      I have no objection to FF being developed provided it’s not going to impact on the current APSC range, i.e. loss of R&D cash and lens development of this system. I also do not want them to stretch themselves for what is ultimately, a niche market, that maybe hard to recoup any their money back. It wouldn’t be in their our our interest for them to go belly up just to give a handful of people a FF camera.

    • inteliboy


    • trullllllllllli

      How about a organic fullframe sensor? Or better a 3-5 layer fullframe sensor that could ultimately beat any other?

  • Oh look, another baseless irrational rumor about full frame sensors in future Fuji cameras. I don’t believe it. That said, I’ve recently chosen to abandon Fuji X in order to return to a full frame system. However, the size of the sensor was only a small portion of the reason. While Fuji has made some great advances in overall camera performance, it still is a far, far cry from what a semi/pro level DSLR can do, a very very far cry from the ecosystem available.

    Still, maybe in a few years that ecosystem will have grown, and performance caught up in absolute terms (not just in good light, high contrast, whatever other qualification is typical). If so, I’ll be interested.

    • Jon Ingram

      Ok? I wish you all the happiness in the world, but most people know the compromises before they heavily invest in the system, including the “ecosystem”. I shoot with FF Nikon and the Fuji system. I see advantages of both. Fuji is pretty hard to beat on the APS-C and size to quality ratio unless you want faster AF and complicated flash. As for pro-cameras, FF Dslr cameras are in a completely different class. Did you abandon your old pro-Dslr gear and buy into Fuji thinking it would have the same performance and system capabilities as your 5dIII or D800 or whatever? No wonder you were disappointed. It’s no secret that performance is better in a pro-dslr that costs minimum $3,000 for body only. News Flash! It’s much easier to create a high performance system when size/cost is not a rate-limiting factor. Conversely, it’s more difficult to make high-performance small cameras. I can’t believe you are “returning” to a FF system. Did you really sell all your full-frame “pro” gear without doing research and now your are flipping back again, or do you just like to come to these forums with smug comments about your epiphany that FF Dslr’s perform better?

  • topace

    If they’re actually doing this (and I don’t actually believe it), then hopefully they’ll either try to make the FF lenses so that they’ll fit the current X-mount, or make all the lenses in X as well as whatever new mount they’ll create.

    To the naysayers: Why say nay? As anyone who’s used a Leica, or why not a Pentax ME with an M 40mm f/2.8, can attest, full frame doesn’t have to be large. It’s just the modern f/2.8 zoom fad, and a bit of marketing that makes that produces those oversized monsters. As for the economy; Compare with sony. They went from a bad APS-C with a horrible interface to a good FF with horrible interface, and at roughly the same price as the XT-1. And they had very little in the way of FF market share to start with. There’s nothing that says Fuji couldn’t do the same thing.

    In my less than humble opinion, an FF X-trans is very desirable, though perhaps the timing’s not yet right to put it in an X camera.

    • nwcs

      I keep hearing about Leica lenses not being large. Well, it’s easy to make them smaller when they are a slower aperture, no autofocus, and no stabilization. When Leica makes a 24mm f1.4 FF lens with autofocus that’s considered very small then I’ll concede that point.

  • Stuart Jukes

    Fuji aren’t dumb. When worlwide sales of cameras have been diving Fuji
    have (it seems) been bucking the trend by actually increasing their
    sales. If you read reviews and comments from people who have bought into
    their system the huge majority say something like “I have sold my big
    and heavy DSLR system and bought this as it’s smaller, lighter, I love
    the styling and the external controls and a great quality lens is about
    half the price of the equivalent Canon / Nikon ” Most will also tell you
    that they LOVE the quality of the images from the sensor. I have a
    X100s, an Xpro1 and a Canon Eos5dmk3. The truth is that a lot of the
    time the images from the Xpro look better than those from the Canon
    already. Fuji know this and make a big thing of it. I keep the Eos only
    because of the ecosystem (remote release, flashes etc and because when I
    arrive to do a wedding people expect you to lug around a huge brick of a
    camera ) but NOT because its FF. I really doubt that Fuji will
    effectively say to all of its user base “remember we told you that APCS
    was good enough, well actually it’s not you need a FF now” while
    simutaneaously having to design a whole new lens range to keep a
    (relatively) small market of potential buyers happy. Fuji I am sure
    realise that as a niche-market player they should concentrate on doing
    exactly what is bringing them their current succes. The Xpro can be
    improved that is a fact, but its not in the sensor where it needs it. My
    guess is that the new Xpro1 will be effectively an XT1 inside an Xpro
    body, but the optical viewfinder kept and a few software tweaks added.
    (I doubt if any camera with “pro” anywhere in its name will have a
    flip-out screen either).

  • elren

    @Patrick or Rico: how about asking FUJI? The posts to this rumor don’t stop. A lot of people think about buying FUJI gear (T1, a new prime and so on). I bet they will think twice about buying something with a FF at the horizon.

    Does FUJI know about this rumor – 1. April fool or trick of a competitor?

    • Patrick

      I can’t ask Fuji as I have no contacts with them. If the rumor is wrong, and Fuji would like to offcially deny that they will go FF with the X-PRO2, they are free to contact me and I’ll correct the rumor.

      I’m sorry if I brake the X-T1 sales (even though it’s still just an unconfirmed rumor)… but I did the same when the X-E2 was launched in October, and I started to spread rumors of the X-T1… my employer are FR-readers, not Fujifilm. So I work for you, and not for them.

  • Gluon

    Patrick, I do not think the excellent work of Fuji with the X-System (and yours with this blog), and the huge efforts they made to build customers’ confidence in it should be ruined like this by this kind of junk rumor.

  • studio1972

    Fuji, please don’t do this. If you want a higher end X camera, how about something like the X-T1, but with 1/8000 shutter speed, faster sync speed (say 1/250), possibly a built in battery grip (like a mini 1DX/D4S), newer sensor with better AF phase detect capabilities and higher resolution, faster burst mode (say 10+ fps), and how about RAW ISO100?

    And then add in some pro grade prime lenses. For example, 35mm f/1, 85mm f/1.4 to compliment the 56mm f/1.2.

    And finally, some reasonably compact, but high quality flashes, maybe that can run on lithium rechargeable batteries?

  • ste787

    why can’t a FF X mount still use their old crop lenses. I never heard of such nonsense. This really is not reliable.

    • studio1972

      Canon FF cameras can’t use EF-S lenses

      • nikkinamé

        That is based on the mirrorsize, this is more of a flange distance problem.

  • cgw

    A reasonable degree of credibility is all that keeps this site afloat. Why damage it?

    • Patrick

      ah, welcome back cgw, I missed you… ;-)

  • TheOne

    The polls that have been conducted, that I have seen on forums, have all favoured Fuji going full frame by a fair margin. Although there are those that arent happy about it, and will be the most vocal about it, the demand for full frame and quality that will come with it will outstrip demand for the smaller sensor.
    In fact the majority of the pro market currently eyeing up the Fuji system would probably be switching if it were full frame.
    There are not many full time pros in the fuji system yet. Lack of full frame is one of the reasons. A full frame line would sort this out, Fuji need a serious pro sector in order to do this. They just dont have that right now.

    However, I think this might be an april fools.

    • Jon Ingram

      I think Fuji should go for it! I would certainly be interested in evaluating their system. However, if I were to switch from Nikon FX, the system would need to be not only equivalent in optical quality, but also smaller. The lenses would need to be smaller. It’s too expensive to jump the FF Nikon ship if I don’t get a substantial size/weight benefit. For me, the perfect compromise is the current Fuji system for size/weight advantages and any situations where I don’t demand complicated flash or advanced AF, and Nikon FF the rest of the time.

    • PRL

      “the demand for full frame and quality that will come with it will outstrip demand for the smaller sensor”.

      I’m interested, outside of Leica which camera company has outstripped APS-C sales with their FF cameras?

  • Thilo Meyer

    To be honest, sounds like a dream coming true.

    I bought the the X-Pro1 and sold it after two months due to APS-C size sensor and AF speed. Now, the sensor would have the right size (love that 35mm/1.4 look) and Fuji managed to increase AF-speed.

    With the right lens lineup (e.g. 35 – 50 – 85/90, all with 1.4), this is an instant buy for me. Together with all lenses – even at a significant higher price than the current ones.

    • Jon Ingram

      Agreed. If they did all that with a small size I would buy it all in a heart-beat and beg for more.

  • Jim Gamblin

    Whether the X-Pro 2 (or whatever it is called) has an APS-C or FF size sensor, it will be a winner. Especially if it will have the same form as the current model and hopefully with even newer technology incorporated into it then the XT-1 has. At this point I feel certain in saying that I will get one regardless of sensor size.

    The argument that pros are not using the X-Pro 1 now, seem unfounded to me. It appears that the truth is just the opposite, that many pros have switched over.

    Having used Nikon FX cameras for the last five years, i don’t see any problem with the IQ coming out of the Fuji X-Trans sensor. The only drawback in the Fuji system is in flash (max. sync speed for one) and other accessories, that Nikon and Canon have developed over a very long time.

    • Jon Ingram

      I agree on every point. I am confident the x-pro 2 will be a winner for sure. Can’t wait to see it!

  • Cookie Monster

    Getting the feeling that people who complains are the ones that have stock up with Fuji APS-C lens… If the lens are FF capable would anyone still complain? It’s not that FF is not welcome is people think their gear might lose value… What if FUJI did tell you except the wide angle won’t work but all other above 35mm works? I don’t think people will complain then! So go on FUJI make FF, even the game!

    • Wishful Thinking

      That’s wishful thinking, none of the Fuji APS-C lenses released to date can illuminate a full frame sensor. The only option would be a “crop mode”, enabling you to still use the lens, but only a part of the sensor (which could be larger than the APS-C, but not full frame). That is assuming they at least keep the same mount.

  • faberryman

    If Fuji released a FF camera, what motivation would Canon and Nikon users have to switch? They are as wedded to the optical viewfinder as they are the full frame sensor.

  • Henry Tse

    Sony just came up with A7s with 4K video… stay competitive FUJI…. at least go FF!

    • faberryman

      It has a 12MP FF sensor. 12MP.

    • terje

      It is not a competitor. The A7S is not that good for photography, it is great for 1080p video but can’t hold a candle to the GH4 for 4K video. Remember, the A7S will only do 4K video to external devices requiring mains connections or huge batteries at the moment, it also only does 8bit video, both 1080p and 4K. It’s only appeal, and that is an appeal, is noise in low-light situations. It’s going to beat the GH4 there for sure. Nowhere else.

  • syke

    I will drop my Sony A7 and give up any remaining ideas on the Leica M if Fuji does release the Xpro2 FF.

  • Lucas

    I’ve been reading these forums since I read bout the x100 here. I get the APS-C vs FF worry but I dont fully understand the fuel behind it.

    I dont know Fuji’s financial situation,I know they are not Sony and I know that they have a genuine sense of customer loyalty. Why would I ever imagine that my current lenses would be useless later after a pro FF line is introduce. Why cant they have a FF and aps-c line. Should I be upset a year from now when my xt2 gets announce because theres a FF line with ( different) features, or should I be happy that Fuji is still showing customer support by continuing both camera lines.

    Now don’t get me wrong, if Fuji cripples its support and funnel everything into FF then yes that’s def not good for all early adopters or individuals not wanting the bulf of FF. However, years of not seeing that from Fuji or years of never seeing them take a crap on their fan base, tells me that a commitment like this would ensure full support in aps-c line for quite a while to come.

    • Antoine B.

      You are exactly right! there is no reason why they could not provide a great customer service as they do today with a FF line-up in addition to the current APS-C.

  • PRL

    There has been quite a lot of concern about potential FF lens weight / size. I can remember some very good Olympus lenses that were compact and of high quality, so it can be done. Also the though of an affordable body for Leica and ZM lenses will be nice to look forward to.

    • faberryman

      Of course neither the Leica nor the Olympus lenses had built-in auto focus motors and associated electronics.

      • PRL

        No and they were all the better for that

  • Antoine B.

    So now that the idea is sinking in, it’s time to ask the big questions!!
    1. what focal lengths and appertures will we get for the primes and zooms?
    2. will we have an OVF?
    3. weather sealing and tilt-screen?
    4. will they be able to fit all this into a Pro1-size package? (Sony proved it’s quite doable)

    Can’t wait to get all the answers!!

  • Orfeu

    Seems like everyone’s questions have that tone of ultimatum saying something to the extent of “Now here’s the real question about this Jimmy”.
    Regardless of questions, and full frame vs APS-C shenanigan , my biggest wish is that Fuji does this as well as they have been doing with the X100, X100S, X Pro1, XE 1, XE 2 and now the XT-1.
    They’ve offered great products and fantastic customer support (though a major X Pro 1 firmware update wouldn’t hurt). They have invited too many people to the X party just to tell them that it ended early and that now the cool kids are moving to a different venue.
    I personally think the FF frame move is great, it shows courage, commitment and a desire to not only stick around but to create their own space in the market. My secret wish and source of great anticipation is that the FF X Pro2 is released with an OVF and an AF and rangefinder hybrid focusing mechanism (is that even possible?)

    • Anthony

      The actual rangefinder focusing mechanism will be great if possible as can definitely reduce the time lags existing with X-Pro1 when using Manual focusing lens

    • Lee Jolley

      I’ve been wanting the same. I asked for a 50mm conversion lens for X100 and Lightroom presets for their JPG’s and both happened. Let’s hope a rangefinder hybrid makes it a hatrick!

  • Fernando Torres

    CP+ 2014: Fujifilm interview – ‘the only way is to keep innovating’

    Do you you want to compete against professional full-frame cameras?

    Inevitably yes, we have to compete against full-frame. The professional market is very segmented, and for example for sports photography I think the X-T1 is already competitive. So yes, I’d like to challenge full-frame.

    Will X-Trans sensors get bigger, in the future?

    At the moment we’re focusing on the APS-C format but in the longer term, after we’ve completed our lens lineup… I can’t deny the possibility.

  • bee

    Having fast(f1.4 or faster) lenses & and a hybrid ovf/evf, it will dominate!
    A7 is evf only & sony’s new FE lens mount limits lenses to f1.8 or slower. I see absolutely NO reason to choose the A7 over the x-pro2.
    Leica will definitely feel the heat as well.

    • M User

      I and looking forward to Fuji FF too but i think having fast lens is not possible (at least the very fast one as they will be really big with auto focus comes with it). Leica can have fast lens in small size only because they do not want auto focus and a lot of us are fine using ZM or M lens as long as there are good manual focus options. I am not sure if a projection of spit focusing on the OVF works or not (not the silly spit focus on the side of the frame like X-T1 please as it draws your attention away) but if it does it solve the problem of having the need of a true range finder (I don’t think Fuji will put in a range finder mechanism ever)

  • Nikonhead

    I am not a pro so for me I would like to see the XP2 stay with the DX sensor so the price of the lenses are reasonable and readily available. I just hope they use the VF (plus optical VF) and wifi from the XT1, tilt screen with touch capability. I am patiently waiting for my first Fuji and will settle for the XE2 if need be.

  • wong pekok

    everybody use fullframe. makes me jealous. i’m jumping ship to olympus.

  • Scott

    I make my living with these cameras, and the X Pro 1 has been dandy. Yet I worry Fuji may $#!T the bed and bring out a full frame option. Fo those who invest into the system and divest themselves of more cumbersome gear, it becomes a slap in the face. The sensor size is more than capable, and see no need other than a keeping up with the Jones’s attitude, which is a downwards race IMO. Rather, Fuji should keep to walking its own path, concentrating on cameras for photographers, not tweaker geeks that love to blog about the newest marketing mumbo-jumbo. The FF hypes is just that, and is not needed to make good photographs. I would hope they have a new generation of the Xtrans, perhaps a higher pixel count, (again, not needed, the 16mp is a fantastic balance of quality and file size) or an even greater DR. I would argue an evolution along the lines of what Fuji has been doing for the last few years is the best approach. Take the hybrid finder, add in the fantastic evf of the XT1, with weather sealing, keep the very same body form (so those upgrading can still use their grips and batteries and thumbs up)

    Add in the latest AF treatments, and a faster processor, and please fuji, please please please allow new films to be a downloadable app that can be added to the camera. I would pay money to be able to download different film treatments. We have it for VSCO, why not do the same but for your in camera profiles?

    Boo-urns Full Frame! Don’t mess with my bread and butter.

    • Paxiuta

      Right on the spot!I trully hope fuji guys take your words and thoughts into consideration.

    • jack

      nobody is asking you to go Full Frame, if you like so much APS-C and think that FF is just a hype, then stay on it.

    • Chang He

      They should make a 6×6 sensor that mates to a Hasselblad V-system. That would be walking their own path, and would be so far beyond “full frame” that they’d solidify their position as a competitor to Canon and Nikon.

  • Benjamin Walters

    How do we feel about jumping straight into a FF system, rather than testing the sensor (and staging the FF rollout) with a fixed-lens x200 (a’la Sony’s strategy with the RX1)?

    Personally I would much prefer a FF x200 as we will get it sooner, there will only be one lens they have to develop, and it will make the whole process simpler and easier to get right. From there they can ramp up the FF offering with new systems and lenses. This might also be a better PR move for Fuji as it minimises some of this initial backlash about xpro1 and xt1 owners feeling betrayed after committing to the system.

    Either way I think moving into FF (to accompany aps-c, not replace it) is an excellent move, and ultimately a must if Fuji want to continue driving this aggressive and well-deserved growth.

  • AdelphosChaz

    I agree with Benjamin. I’d like to see a FF X200 before any interchangeable lens set up. I can then have a FF X200 and APS-C X-T1 and still use all my Fuji lenses. I don’t really care what happens with Fuji FF outside of if the X200 is FF or not. I have no interest in a larger body or lenses. Other’s will greatly benefit from it and welcome it with open arms! I see not problem with Fuji doing what every main player had done. Have a FF Pro model and APS-C models that are “nearly” as good. The more the merrier. It will bring a larger crowd to Fuji. Only people it really sucks for is existing X-Pro 1 owners who want the 2, because they will have to buy all new lenses. Everyone else, doesn’t really effect us. I’m happy with an X-T1 and X100s or X200 as my two cameras to carry. If I wanted a second body I’d get another X-T1, not the Pro, anyway.

  • LivingImage

    I thought that not ago the head honcho of Fuji said they won’t be producing a Full Frame, and that they would concentrate on higher quality pixels not more pixels. That declaration gave a lot of us the confidence to invest what little we have in the current sensor size……and high quality lenses, on the understanding that this would be Fujis finest…….was that just a hollow declaration?

  • Dale R Boudreaux

    This will not happen for a while. They would have to launch a whole new lens lineup. I’ve heard from a Fuji rep that they aren’t looking to make a FF in the foreseable future.

    • idiotshoping

      agree. XT1 delievers all it needs to deliver. It can fight all big beast with full frame. I love guys going “wild” by reading rumours. Idiots.

  • Anton Anokhin

    Yeah, Full Frame 6×4.5 !

    • Chang He

      That’s still a crop sensor. 6×6 all the way.

      • Learn

        LOL you havent seen some new tech. It is not all about sensor sizes :)

      • Jonas Weckschmied

        Why not 6×9, or 4×5 ?

        • Chang He

          Totally. But my 501c is 6×6, so I’m selfish. :-)

        • lobo33

          Exact. Where are the Fuji lenses for it ? Leica ?

  • lololo

    No need. XT1 delivers all the goods without Full Frame. This is just marketing, money, bla bla…. Full frame :) LOL You guys are so behind the tech facts.

    • Toro

      Ah ah, you must be a troll … or you dont understand much about tech facts. Fuji APS-C are so great that a FF sensor would be amazing and would allow to use all Leica or Voigtlander legacy lenses. A dream for many people!

  • lololo

    LOL the picture of a PRO2, with 1/4000. LOL They could have worked it abit on the dial to make a 1/8000 if they wanted to represent fake PRO2 by photoshoping number 2 onto body. RETARDS

    • myx

      Nikon Df which is fullframe also has maximum shutter speed at 1/4000

  • Chang He

    I actually have seen some new tech, and you’re right, it’s not, but bigger sensors are better in many ways, both depth of field control and in light sensitivity. There’s simply no comparison between a medium format back (or even a D800) and m4/3, even a top-of-the-line m4/3 sensor. The differences between APS-C are smaller, but still there.

  • Herbgold

    LES jeux sont FAITS

    • Patrick

      whoops, corrected

      • Herbgold


  • zeum

    talked to rep. said no way. next big deal will be med format under 10k

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