16
Oct
2013

Full Frame X200 coming 2014?

 photo x100s_zpsa7d55e5e.png

You can save $120 on the X100S here if you purchase the X100S at top rated eBay reseller camerland. Good deal also on a demo X100S at eBay seller kenmorecamera here. You will save $100 here.

_ _ _

This could be Fuji’s answer to the FF Sony A7r  and FF Sony A7 ($1,700). According to xjrumo (translation) Fuji will go full frame next year. The fixed lens X200 will focus faster than the Sony RX1 and have in body image stabilization!

xjrumo has proven to be right in the past… and let’s hope also this time. I’ll immediatly contact my sources and try to confirm it ASAP.

Stay tuned via google+, facebook, twitter and RSS feed.

  • Ash

    I would buy one.

    • SLRist

      Me too. A fixed lens FF f2.0 camera with BUILT IN VIEWFINDER (are you listening Sony)? The perfect camera for me. Make it interchangeable lens and what’s the point – it would be as big as a DSLR.

  • daniel jenkins

    fixed lens. no. why wait? the sony’s here already.

    x-Pro-2.. yes. that would be a real camera.

    • Hunter

      Agreed. A full frame fixed lens camera – even if in the same ballpark pricing as the Sony A7 would be ideal for someone with absolutely nothing better to do with their money. They might as well make it 14k gold and sell exclusively at Barneys New York website.

      • http://deleted Calking

        *******Hooray******* >>>> !!!!!!!

        It’s a GREAT DAY to be a Fuji owner!!!!

        FINALLY …. Those who have been wasting their entire photographic lives away waiting for full frame mirrorless ILC system have seen their ship come in with the announcement of the Sony a7 series!

        Not only that, but those cameras have hybrid VFs, dual-detection-type sensors, tiltable screens, choice of 24 or 36 megapixels, weather-resistant all magnesium bodies, and 5 FF lenses are expected to be released at launch as well!!! And….they’re actually priced in tandem with DSLR FF models!!!

        Why is this great news??? Well, given that someone lusting for the same thing in a Fuji X-series camera would have to invest in all-new lenses were fuji to release a FF model, there’s no incentive for that group of whiners to continue to hang out here or in other fuji forums, complaining about the lack of a full frame X-Pro. Those of you whose entire existence has been predicated on having a professional-grade, full-frame mirrorless camera can rejoice, because the time has finally come for you!!!!

        Just head on over to dpreview or your closest sony forum site and get ready for the time of your life!!! WoooHooo!!! Get those Amazon pre-orders Rollin’!!!

        Don’t you worry about us poor, depraved Fuji APSC X / A sensor camera owners, either. We will find a way to get by with the gear we have. We wish you all the very best in your afterlife with Sony!!!

        Time to THIN THE HERD I say !!!!!

        • Chad

          Gotta love comments like this. Really raises the level of discourse.

        • JK

          And yet another tldr comment from you ranting about the new camera. Is it not enough to do it in one thread? If you don’t like the X-E2 or don’t care about it, then don’t read this site. Just stay away from it.

        • Panupat

          Thumbs up!

    • MrGecko

      Yup I agree and as others below have stated the lens issue is a big one. Sony failed there big time. I may get some flak for this but I could see them dropping the X100 all together and focusing on the flagship Pro. The lineup is getting crowded and if you want to hold pricing up on the high end cameras then there has to be a bigger feature gap. Its about product cycle and I have yet to see what Fuji is shooting for along those lines.

      Hope to see FF Pro soon

      • SLRist

        Fuji will *never* drop the X100 line. It’s still the best camera in its class. X100 users and X (other) users are totally different kinds of users.

  • Jon R

    I wonder if this means Fuji FF MILC coming in 2015. I’m curious though what all the manufacturers are coming for Photokina 2014.

  • David N.

    I also hope that we get a FF XPRO soon, I consistently invest in FUJINON lens. Please FUJI let us discuss some rumours to give us hope! :-)

    • Raz

      If you’ve invested in lots of Fuji lenses why would you want a body on which you could only use them in crop mode?

  • http://paulvangaansphotography.tumblr.com Paul

    Would the current line of Fuji XF Lenses cover a full frame sensor, or would Fuji need to develop a completely new line of lenses for a full frame camera?

    • z1d0v

      They would have to develop new lenses for a new FF camera.

    • http://deleted Hunter

      I think before Fuji starts worrying about potential full frame options, and all these other lower ends cameras they keep coming out with, they should pay some love and attention to the XPro1. Update this damn thing already.

      By the time an XPro1s/XPro2 comes out, they’ll probably already have an X200 or X-E2s out with an even better processor and sensor – thus always leaving their “pro” camera behind everything else.

      • Joachim

        Thank you! Software updates aren’t doing it right now for the X-Pro1.
        Fuji needs to stop getting those lower end models out because frankly, to me, they’re all pretty similar.
        They should go back to the good old days with the X100 series, the X-Pro series, the X-E series, and the X10 series.
        These cameras were great! Now all of them are getting brand new makeovers, except the X-Pro1.
        The day they release the X-Pro 1s/X-Pro 2, i’ll pre order it.
        I just hope it’ll be sooner rather than later :)

        • http://deleted Calking

          Funny….when fuji ONLY offered the high-end models you mention, the Internet forum whiners could only complain about the high price. They also predicted that fuji would “be out of business” if all they offered were high-end cameras and lenses.

          Not that fuji models their camera line after forum whiners, but with every new release of a lower-spec model here come the complaint crowd, saying that the cheaper models are diluting the line. What’s more, we’re seeing the same “I hate the X-Trans sensor…gimme back a bayer sensor and I’ll be happy…” cry babies singing the same song….”XA1 is too much like the XM1….I was hoping for something like….”.

          What the so-called “enthusiast” / gear head / techno spec freak crowd needs to get their heads around is that the REST of the world — normal people going online or into a retail store to buy a camera — will typically have a certain amount of money to spend, and they don’t whittle away hours per day researching specs and pixel-peeping themselves blind over variations in models.

          MOST consumers are going to be influenced as to what to buy with their hard-earned dollars based on a preconception of utility, practicality, price, brand, and most importantly — recommendations and/or reviews from others. At the end of the day, though, most of the world are going to buy a camera / system that costs less than a month’s wages. We’re fuji to ignore this market segment they WOULD indeed not succeed in this already crowded and ultra-competitive, low-margin space, so those of you complaining about the company somehow “cheapening” themselves by offering competitive consumer product in the $500 – $999 price range need a reality check as to just what exactly constitutes a “cheap” camera, because this is NOT Point-n-Shoot stuff we’re discussing here.

          Interestingly, it seems to me that many, many enthusiast gear heads have a preconceived notion that somehow Fuji only got into the camera game with the introduction of the original X100, which was soon followed by the X-Pro1, XE-1 / X10, etc, and so believe that the various consumer X-models that have come about since then are some kind of downward spiral, or that the higher-spec models aren’t selling so they are being forced to pander to the consumer crowd.

          For those of you that think that, do a little research. You’ll soon discover that the whole X-x platform came about from a company that already manufactured a full line of bridge and P&S cameras for years prior to the creation of the X100. Making consumer price-conscious models of their higher-end gear isn’t just some ploy to attract business — they’re already in that space and have been for quite some time. In other words, during those “good old days” you mention, fuji had a dozen or more consumer grade cameras in play, not just the X’s.

          Every other consumer camera manufacturer has done the same thing, Leica included, so making lower spec / cheaper cameras isn’t a new concept, or poor business.

          Lexus is high-end Toyota, built on the same chassis platforms as the lower priced cars but with upgraded features and performance that appeal to a smaller, more affluent car buyer. Toyota was first a budget automaker, then developed Lexus. There is overlap in the model lineup galore, yet it would be corporate suicide for Toyota to ditch their model lineup in favor of Lexus.

          • Alan W

            + a huge 1!

          • Bemused

            Sir/Madam, I like the cut of your jib.

          • phocus.org

            +++++++++++++1

        • James

          I agree with you 100%. I was hoping that the end of 2013 or beginning of 2014 they would update the XPRO. Messing around with all these low end cameras when people are ditching the point and shoots because of the iPhones… Fuji seemed to have found a nitch was competing with the DSLR’s (I’m almost moved over from Nikon) but they are investing in these low-end cameras. Like you said they all seem the same thing.

          Fuji bring on some new heavy weights!

  • http://www.izelphotography.com Izel Photography

    I think this would be very interesting. I’m not convinced about a FF X Pro. After seeing the size of the Sony lenses for the A7 & A7r I would not want Fuji to repeat that. For instance…

    Fuji 18-55 f/2.8 – f/4 = 300g

    Canon Full Frame
    Canon 17-40L = 475g
    Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 = 510g

    Sony A7
    24-70 f/4 = 680g . From Amazon (Product Dimensions: 4.5 x 4.3 x 8.1 inches ; Weight 1.5 pounds)

    More than double the weight of the Fuji. Mirrorless for me was about obtaining the best quality at a good weight reduction. There seems to be little point reducing the weight / size of the camera if you are going to stick extra on top of the lens over and above a normal full frame lens?!?!

    • Pär

      I agree. With fast lenses the weight is too close to DSLR FF. I’m interested in Fuji of the same reason, saving weight and still have excellent IQ.

      • Daniel C.

        Yes, that’s a strong point. A X100FF may still be ok size-wise. But the FF MILC-System would gain a lot in terms of size an weight.

    • http://www.oscar.portfoliobox.fr Skeurz

      Sony A7 35mm: 120g

      Fuji XF35mm= 187g

      • Antoine

        irrelevant. Not the same focal length and aperture.

        • Nicholo P

          Have you guys looked at M mount lenses made by zeiss, voigtlander and leica? They are smaller than any X mount lens and are full frame. Lens size does not equate to the size of the image projected. My voigtlander 35 1.4 is way smaller than the fuji 35 1.4, and smaller still than the 18 f2.0.

          • Bemused

            Does your voigtlander have autofocus and/or image stabilisation?

      • Raz

        The Sony/Zeiss 35mm lens is an f2.8 wide angle on a FF. Apples and oranges. What you should be comparing to is the 55mm f1.8 ‘normal lens’ whichever weighs 281g for similar field of view and depth of field.

        • http://deleted Paja

          That is like a classical film era standard lenses, e.g. http://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-FA-50mm-F1.4-Lens.html All companies have them and they are usually smaller and lighter than Fuji XF 35, but probably with not so food quality in corners wide open, etc.

          However I would love to see these older designs, but small and light for Fuji X. Maybe even with in-body motor and screw drive on X-Pro-2. I love Pentax Limited lenses: small and sturdy. And something like that could be still smaller for Fuji X.

    • jonnie

      Hi, admittedly the canon zooms are big and heavy but there are a few primes which are quite small, im thinking the 40mm 2.8 and the 50mm 1.8, the 1.4 and 1.2 lenses are a lot bigger though. It would be possible to have decent quality primes which are 1.8 – 2.8. I used to have the mk1 versions of the 24mm 2.8 and 35mm f2 these were also a nice size and weight, not perfect lenses by any means but they did a half decent job.

    • DJPB

      FF is a quite artificial hype. The old mainstream 35mm system but reinvented and repositioned at a terrible price level.

      The advantage of FF-sensors are in most cases a myth, built on the chip design limitations that existed a decade ago. But time as evolved, the latest generation of APS/C and 4/3 sensors deliver equal performance with most FF sensors, see this whole X-trans concept. If not, it are build-in deficiencies, I’m pretty sure some big brands are not affraid to do so.

      What remains are the famous DOF and bokeh-competence of FF. But even there, a 35mm F1.4 can deliver an equal bokeh result as a 50mm F2.0.

      So what? Knowing most users of FF-DSLR’s are walking around with slower zooms? Photographers are also used to the 35mm kind of view and ‘pop”, but I think that modern lens design is capable to achieve the same image feel with smaller format sensors and lenses.

      Remains the disadvantages of FF: the weight, the footprint and size, the prices and most of all, there have been more serious concept problems with FF cameras than ever seen in smaller sensor camera’s.

      The future of technology has always been smaller, lighter and more advanced, not bigger, bulkier and heavier. With camera’s it won’t be different.

      On the other hand, I don’t know what is living in the Fujifilm R&D backstage. The lens roadmap was not upgraded in quite some time, stops in januari 2014. Is there something to hide?

      We all feel that Fujifilm is creating a kind of mystery around the X-Pro1. An X-E2, but no X-Pro1 replacement announcements. No planning. The story of the organic sensor, omni-present in a lot of discussions. Now some FF-news.

      We’ll have to wait to see. But on the other hand, I still love my X-Pro1 as it is. What is out there that I don’t have? I have never made any better pictures than I do now. I’ve forgotten how a DSLR looks, smells and was disabling my neck and left arm.

      • http://deleted Chad

        Sounds like you have yourself convinced.

        I love my X-Pro too. I’m just not blind to the beauty of FF.

        DOF and Bokeh conversations go beyond simple equivalents. At the end of the day, a 23mm lens draws much different than a 35mm. Simply adding a crop factor does not make a 23mm on an APS-C camera the equivalent of a FF 35mm lens.

        Perspective is part of the formula as well – see how a 135mm lens draws compared to an 85mm or 50mm.

        You basically have decades of images created on 135mm format who’s perspectives have been seared into our collective consciousness.

        APS-C and m4/3 are great compromises that provide tremendous image quality given the size of their sensors and lenses but the market needs somewhere to go and right now “sensor size” is the new megapixel war.

        Personally I don’t see any reason to defend or denounce a format, they all have their benefits. Claiming that FF quality is a myth just ignores the obvious in order to defend your own platform choice.

        Who cares?

        • phocus.org

          +1 (using FF, APS-C, 4/3, and P&S – for various reasons :) )

    • SQLGuy

      I think Amazon needs to check their specs. Per Sony the FE 24-70 F4 is 430g.

      http://store.sony.com/vario-tessar-t-fe-24-70mm-f4-za-oss-zid27-SEL2470Z/cat-27-catid-All-Alpha-NEX-Lenses?_t=pfm%3Dsearch

      And a constant F4 on full frame is like a constant 2.8 on APS-C.

  • Daniel C.

    Hi,

    as interesting as a X100 FF-version would be, a X-Pro 1 FF-Version without lens-compatibility (what is to be expected) would be slap in the early adapters face.

    We will see.

    Daniel

  • http://paulvangaansphotography.tumblr.com Paul

    Yeah the weight is going to be an issue .. I had a quick shoot with a mates 5D mkIII with the 20 – 200mm f2.8L lens attached and I was over it after about 10 minutes.

  • Neil

    This is a nightmare – for me at least.
    I have a X100 – almost from the day it came out. I love it but Im just about to pull the trigger on buying a X-E2 as there are times i need different focal lengths.
    As well as the X-e2 im therefore thinking of buying 2-4 lenses. possibly 2 zooms for convenience and perhaps the 35mm and ideally a portrait lens if it ever comes. That’s a serious financial investment that Ive been working up to for some time.
    Now Afaik – most people say the current lenses wont work on a FF sensor due to size which means my lenses will become obsolescent almost immediately.
    On one hand ive been happy with the X100 for a couple of years so why not just be happy with the x-e2 +lenses but when buying a load of lenses id like to think they might last to another camera and why buy them now why not buy them later when cheaper.
    So this is a real problem for Fuji – im now not thinking about getting the x-e2 – or if i do i might not buy so many lenses – that gives them a huge cashflow problem if everyone does the same.
    Hence why rumour sites arent always that popular with makers as they might be trying to shaft us – i wonder how many of the cheap x-e1 adverts state a new camera is out this week?
    having said that fuji do seem better than average esp with firmware etc – do the obvious thing for them to do is make a statement about if they were to develop a FF their current lenses would work on it or not….

    • http://www.oscar.portfoliobox.fr Skeurz

      What would be nice would be if the X-Pro2 is a FF, and the X-E line continues as APS-C (for a while), and the next lenses released by Fuji are FF but keep the X-Mount to be compatible with the X-E.
      In that configuration you can buy X-E cameras, and all the lenses, or X-Pro cameras, with the FF lenses. At some point the crop lenses that we have today will be updated, so it’s all fine. At that point, Fuji can make an X-E camera go FF.

      That would be the dream for an X-E1 user!

      • http://www.oscar.portfoliobox.fr Skeurz

        What would be nice would be if the X-Pro2 is a FF, and the X-E line continues as APS-C (for a while), and the next lenses released by Fuji are FF but keep the X-Mount to be compatible with the X-E.
        In that configuration you can buy X-E cameras, and all the lenses, or X-Pro cameras, with the FF lenses. At some point the crop lenses that we have today will be updated, so it’s all fine. At that point, Fuji can make an X-E camera go FF.

        That would be the dream for an X-E1 user!

        (As long as all the lenses are fast and light…. which will be complicated.)

  • Jay

    I don’t get it – rumors of another fixed lens camera, but no hint of an updated X-Pro.
    Why release the (by all accounts) outstanding new XF 23mm, and offer no adequate, updated pro-camera model with optical viewfinder?
    And about full-frame: all XF lenses are already full-frame compatible, so why would anybody object to a full-frame X-Pro?
    Fuji could release an updated XF 35mm with better build quality and distance scales, the XF 56mm is just around the corner, and the existing lens-line-up would be good to go.

    • Antoine

      Under Fuji has a some revolutionary concept in the pipeline, XF lenses won’t be FF compatible.

    • jeditech

      “all XF lenses are already full-frame compatible”

      where is this stated?

      • Jay

        It was mentioned in the comments here on Fujirumors when the first XC lens was introduced.

        • jeditech

          any official statement from Fuji?

          • Jay

            It seems there have been contradicting statements from Fuji-representatives, at one point confirming, then again denying X-mount (and XF-lens) full frame compatibility. To me it appears like they want to stay silent on the subject until there’s a product to announce.

          • Colin

            Jay, could you please link to even one such case of a quote from Fujifilm where it is suggested the X-mount or XF lenses might be full-frame compatible?

          • Jay

            @Colin: I read it in the comments on this side a while ago and it made a lot of sense to me. Now it seems like it might have been wrong information, I apologize if that’s the case.

    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/dirk23/ dirk

      Might be interesting to use the XF-lenses on a FF-sensor in square mode though. Vignetting will be strong in the corners but not too much on the sides.

    • Frankie

      Xf lenses not covering FF

  • Andy

    Inbody stabilisation in future Fujis excites me…

    • http://deleted Raz

      Yes me too, this would be an awesome Xpro-2 feature!

  • jeditech

    It’s a nice experiment what Sony is doing now with A7 and A7r, but I doubt mirrorless FF would ever become a mass market. The camera body can be shrinked, but not the lenses, especially fast prime lenses. Why is Sony/Zeiss only offering 24-70/4 but not 2.8? Because it would be too big and too heavy for the “tiny” camera body. Neither will there be any fast prime with f1.4 for the same reason.

    Fuji would do themselves and the consumers a favour not to follow the mirrorless FF hype, it would take away too much resource which is utterly needed to further establish the X-platform. Give us new, good lenses and better AF performance. A compact-size and light-weight APS-C system as the X-platform is just right.

    • john

      agree!

    • http://www.izelphotography.com Izel Photography

      Yeah….. after seeing the weight / size of the Sony lenses I would agree 100%. I would like to see a FF X200, it’s reasonable to keep that to a small size. If they could work on getting the resolution to about 20-24mp while maintaining or improving ISO performance, I think they would have a camera for the wider market.

    • rr98

      I don’t follow your logic. If lens for mirrorless APS-C camera can be shrink, why can’t lens for mirrorless FF achieve it? Moreover, Sony 24-70 f4 (http://goo.gl/QlY0sP) is almost 33% lighter than Canon’s 24-70 f4L (http://goo.gl/0ncbFp).

  • john

    I am really curious to see how many will actually buy the sony a7.

    Visitors (amateurs) on rumorsites screaming for full-frame mirrorcamera’s the past 2 or 3 years, just because it’s cool to say it. But how many can actually afford on (with full-frame lenses).

    • http://deleted Chad

      The A7r was number one on Amazon US sales rankings on day one (pretty impressive for a $2.2k item) and has been in the top ten since.

      Me thinks they have a winner.

  • MJr

    On the day the Sony’s are released, that’s a bit too much a coincidence.

    I wouldn’t think there is enough space (or that Fuji would be ready) for a sensor that big with all electronics and hybrid EVF in a body so small. Especially that EVF is going to be in the way. There’s a reason Sony didn’t go for a corner EVF .. it just wouldn’t fit otherwise. It’s even worse when the EVF is next to the actual OVF. Of course i could underestimate them and the whole hybrid part could fit snug above the sensor just fine .. if they manage to minimize all other electronics around it.

    • tim

      Location of the EVF seems to more related to the screen size. Put it to the left corner and the screen size has to shink. You will notice that Sony does not have the same button addiction as Fuji, and they fill all of this into a body smaller than XPro1.

  • Hunter

    Fuji comes out with the X Series of cameras (namely the XPro1, X100 and X-E1) which offers smaller, lighter but still high end build quality and a line of glass that has been well received.

    The whole point to these cameras are to get away from the big, heavy handed size and weight of the Nikons/Canons – whether for work or play.

    Then people start bitching about wanting full framed versions of these cameras – which then just puts you right back to the size/weight/cost of the original camera systems the Fuji’s were meant to replace and/or supplement.

    No offense to Fuji, but if I wanted a full frame camera/system, I’m not going to pussyfoot around with what would be a baby line-up of lenses, virtually no real flash options or accessories. I would just go with a Nikon or Canon, both of whom have a wide range of industry-specific gear and accessories for any style of photography.

    I love the XPro1. I prefer the XPro1. But I same with the Sony A7, I’m not going to pay a premium price for what is essentially a “not bad for a ____” type of camera. I’d just get into a D800 or a 5DM3.

    • Neil (another)

      Exactly, They’d be competing with the big boys who have market share, money, and name recognition. Nothing Fuji offers in FF would really swing market share their way. For all the bluster of rumor site posters, Sony has made NO headway in 35mm frame camera market share in all of the years they have been in that market. No reason to expect them to take over now or for Fuji to follow them like lemmings off the cliff.

      • http://deleted Chad

        Anecdotally, the photo groups I belong too, that are comprised almost exclusively of Canon and Nikon shooters, are buzzing hard about the A7 cameras. A couple of the guys have already placed orders.

        I think Sony is disrupting the market from below since their A-Mount strategy hit the Canikon wall. They made a camera that by appearances does not scare a DSLR shooter and excites them based on size and performance – especially the R model.

        The interesting question is where does this leave Fuji? Are we just going to see incremental improvements to the APS-C platform or are they going to compete in the new compact FF space.

        I would argue that the majority of Fuji users entered the platform based not on the sensor size, but on the quasi-rangefinder experience. Will they stay happy when a camera like the A7 is within striking distance ($) of the X-Pro, has the highest rated sensor in the DXOMark database and has lenses that cost about as much as the XF lenses. Admittedly, I think Fuji is producing much more appealing lens focal lengths and speeds.

  • http://paulvangaansphotography.tumblr.com Paul

    Found this quote … apparently from Fuji

    “It (Fuji) has also moved to quell suggestions that its XF lenses are ready for a full-frame X-mount camera. ‘It would not work – XF lenses could not be used with a full-frame sensor,’ said Hiroshi Kawahara, operations manager of Fujifilm’s product planning division.

    Read more on PhotoRumors.com: http://photorumors.com/2012/09/21/fuji-now-claims-their-xf-lenses-cannot-cover-a-35mm-sensor-sony-and-panasonic-full-frame-cameras-are-possible/#ixzz2hsawsnrt

  • Adam

    Hiroshi Kawahara, operations manager at Fuji stated last year that current XF lenes are not compatable with FF, but also stated they were looking into the production of a FF sensor. Fitting it into a X200 fixed makes sence in that it won’t affect anyone who has invested in XF lenses.

  • Neil

    thinking about this you can use M lenses on an X camera – and M lenses work on full frame leica cameras so does this mean you could use XF lenses on a FF perhaps with an adapter? though you worry about the quality – having said that the review of lenses linked to on this site states the XF lens beat a summicron!

    • Raz

      You’d effectively need an enlargement lens behind your XF lens to make it work (like the reverse of a Speed Booster which shrinks the full frame image circle of a FF lens down to APS-C). Whether that’s optically possible for the XF mount with its tiny flange distance I don’t know but I’d imaging the chances of it being done are extremely low. You’d also probably lose a stop of light in the process so it wouldn’t be super attractive.

    • Colin

      Your logic is flawed. Think about it this way: You can use Hasselblad 6×6 lenses on a 35mm Nikon body using a mount adapter. Does that mean you can use 35mm Nikon lenses on a Hasselblad body with a mount adapter and get full coverage? Of course not.

      • Neil

        It was more of a question. ive never seen an M lens – or the adapter in real life. I didnt realise the adapter reduced the size of the aperture.
        If its much wider than an XF of course what you say is right. from the odd picture ive seen they look similar diameters – though we all know photos lie…
        I was just wondering if all the adapter did was change the mount it might work the other way around.

        • Colin

          The adapter doesn’t reduce the size of the aperture. There’s more to it than just changing the mount.

          Light comes in the front of a lens and goes out the back. What’s important is the size of the image circle being “projected” out the back of the lens (onto the sensor). Adapting the mount of a lens doesn’t change the size of the lens’ image circle.

          When Fujifilm designed the lenses for the X system, they designed the lenses such that the image circle projected by the lenses covers an APS-C size sensor. If you put a full-frame sensor in there instead of the APS-C size one, the image circle won’t cover the full frame. M-mount lenses can cover full-frame because they are designed such that their image circle is larger.

          Here’s a crude diagram:
          http://i.stack.imgur.com/67nmv.png
          The red lines would correspond to Fujifilm’s lenses. The grey lines would correspond to M-mount lenses.

        • Colin

          Just to labour the point…
          The larger image circle of M-mount lenses is not directly related to physical lens size nor the size of the lens mount.

          • Neil

            thats really helpful – thanks.

          • Neil

            so is my logic correct? they could bring out a XFF lens that had a big enough circle for a FF that worked on smaller senors ie was backwards compatible.

          • Colin

            They _could_ introduce “XFF” lenses as you call them. That’s what Sony has just done. Now Sony has “E” lenses (E-mount, APS-C coverage) and “FE” lenses (E-mount, full-frame coverage). But what you risk then is p*ssing off all your existing customers who have invested in non-full-frame X-mount lenses, and you also have two systems to support going forward.

            There might be more to it though, such as whether light being projected out the back of an appropriately-designed X-mount lens would in fact adequately illuminate a full-frame sensor. (With the back of the lens so close to the sensor, I’m thinking of the fact that light projected up to the corners of a full-frame sensor has to travel relatively much further than light projected onto the centre of the sensor.)

          • Joe

            But XF lenses could work in a cropped mode, just list e mounted lens on the new alpha 7(r).

  • Dr.S

    The X200 will be made in China? The site is Chinese!

  • http://paulvangaansphotography.tumblr.com Paul

    Yes full frame lenses easily cover smaller APSC sensors but smaller APSC designed lenses can’t cover the larger FF sensor. They will work but you are left with heavy vignetting on the image.

  • http://paulvangaansphotography.tumblr.com Paul

    “Hiroshi Kawahara, operations manager at Fuji stated last year that current XF lenes are not compatable with FF, but also stated they were looking into the production of a FF sensor. Fitting it into a X200 fixed makes sence in that it won’t affect anyone who has invested in XF lenses.”

    Now that makes sense! I’m really interested in this as I’m currently a Pentax shooter and am looking to move into the Fuji X-pro1 system and lenses.

  • EJPB

    I’m saying this already for a while… Fujifilm has not been updating the lens roadmap for some time now, it ends in January 2014. Next thing… the organic sensor… if that all become true, RIP Sony A7 and Leica M.

  • Fengyboy

    If the X200 has a 35mm F2/2.8 lens and a hyrid viewfinder, in addition to fast AF as X100s, I’ll definitely buy it :)

    For now, I’m concentrated on completing my X system by getting the upcoming X-E2 and more XF lenses.

  • shadowc

    No one talks about RX10? This is what I’ve been waiting for in an X-S2! Now Sony becomes the first and the only one for a bridge camera with a large sensor. That is why it is so expensive. But the lenses 24-200 f2.8 is quite good.

    • Calking

      Its a 1″ sensor — depends on what you mean by “large”.

      But since the sony is a fixed-lens zoom, have at it — just buy the Sony Sonny and he happy!
      These are, after all, just cameras.

  • JanIIISobieski

    Full frame, full frame..what about good cameras with APS-c sensor with good IQ and not to big and heavy lenses…Did anyone see how big lenses for this new sony FF system are ?
    Ok 35mm prime is small but it is F2.8 lens…and CZ 50mm 1.8? Huge! Zooms? Huge!

    • http://deleted Chad

      I wouldn’t call them huge – you could argue that the Zeiss 24-70 is smaller than the Fujinon:

      The Fuji 18-55 is 2.56″ in diameter and 2.77″ in length but that length extends to something closer to 5″ when zoomed out!

      The Zeiss 24-70 is just a little wider at 2.87 and 3.7″ long. It does not extend so it is actually smaller than the Fuji while being weather proof and constant aperture to boot.

      and what about the Fuji 35mm vs the Zeiss 55m (close equivalents)?

      The Fuji is actually a hair wider @ 2.56″ compared to 2.52″ of the Zeiss and only 3/4 of an inch shorter.

      So to call the Sony lenses “huge” is hyperbole

  • Wen

    Right, it makes perfect sense to put IBIS in a fixed lens camera.

  • Fabio

    Sony has made a desperate move – trying to find itself a place in photo industry. But it’s also a desperate move. Just think of this: if i’m interested in a full frame system, there are a few things I absolutely need: a serious wide angle, a macro, if possible longer than standard to be used for still life, a fast portait lens. No one of those is available now, they maybe in 2015, and if it’s true that I can adapt my Nikon AIs to the new system, it’s also true that it won’t resolve the wide angle matter (a retrofocus put by an adapter further away from the focal plane is hardly an elegant solution). And the cost of a Sony system, when you put the lenses in the balance, is terrible.
    A full frame Fuji should go the same road, and it does not make great sense. On the contrary, a revamped X-Pro would be of great help. It should have more pixels (20 or 24 mps) for those who care (for my uses the present resolution is ok). But, mostly, it should have hybrid AF, better peak focus, weather sealing, in-camera stabilization. This, together with the wonderful set of lenses already available, would never make me long for full frame.

    • DTB

      Agree! Update the X-Pro 2 with higher resolution sensor and bring out macro and short-to-long telephoto fast prime lenses for the system.

  • Sera
    • peter

      dream on

  • Sylvain

    Would be awesome…considering iso perfs on aps-c, I assume that files could be super clean up to 25600 on ff.
    A FF with a kit lens 24-70 f4 and a zoom 70-200 , plus a wide angle 14mm, a 35 mm and a 56mm would be perfect for a start. I really wish to switch to Fuji. At the moment I owned a sony A77 and a couple a great lenses + a Fuji X20 and guess what..most of the time I shoot pics with the X20…

  • MFer

    The minute the FF X200 is confirmed I will start saving up. The XE-2 is not enough of an upgrade over my XE-1, so I will wait for the next X-PRO. I will stay with the Fuji system. The haptics are better for me than any other cameras, the aperture ring on lens and the shutter speed dial.
    PLEASE MAKE THE X200 AVAILABLE IN BLACK

  • Per K

    Sorry all Fuji-fans, but larger sensor means better IQ, and better resolution means – better resolution. I own a E-X1 and brought it on my recent photo trip to Istanbul. Yes the IQ is excellent for a APS-C camera – but no way the IQ can compete with what my D800 delivers.
    I need large prints and a D800 A2 print is better than a Fuji A3 print. Printed in the same size, D800 is significantly better. It means I cannot hang same size prints from both cameras beside each other – The Fuji will look less crisp and 3D.
    I brought the E-X1 with 18-55 and also a Nikon 85/1.8 with adapter. The Nikon do resolve much better than the 18-55. This kit weight was 1.2kg. Earlier this year I went to Hong Kong with the D800, 24/2.8 and the 85/1.8 – and a Sony RX100. Weight 1.8kg. No problem!
    I wish I brought the D800 to Istanbul instead and did not sell my Sony RX100………..
    The trend is towards larger sensors (CaNiSon looking at MF?). Fuji go FF? Yes I hope so, but do they have the financial muscle to do that? Otherwise I believe that the X-Trans sensor would benefit from higher resolution, and of course lager sensor area.

    • XE11

      E-X1 ? the samsung E-X1 ?

      (please note, you used it twice)

  • MarcG

    Very clear that in the next year or so there will be a FF interchangeable lens Fuji camera – plus all the lenses to go with it.
    Time to stop buying new Fuji lenses if you think that you are going to move into FF

    • Neil (another)

      Very premature decision. I can see Fuji doing a small lineup of 35 mm boutique cameras but they would miss out on the biggest market: APS-C. For all the marketing and rumor site anxiety the majority of sales and profits are in the APS-C market. Prestige doesn’t keep a company in the black. If Fuji focuses and concentrates on being excellent in their defined APS-C space they have the chance to truly gain market share. However, if they chase after fads in an over-saturated market and spread themselves too thin for volume sales then they’ll never go far.

      • Markus

        Agree with this. X200 makes sense as a stand alone.

        But a new range of FF lenses, moving size and weight towards a dSLR… for what? …. APS-C is good enough and XF lenses are lovely.

        I doubt Fuji will move to FF interchangeable anytime soon.

  • MFer

    Per K is full of it. My daughter shoots a D800, we have printed many from both cameras (and M43, and Sigma DP2m) and the difference up to 20 x 30 is virtually nil. The D800 can only reach it’s full potential at optimum apertures on a tripod. The Sigma Foveon will equal it up to 30 x 40 or more. Yes, if you regularly print 30 x 40 or larger you might need the D800. I will bet Per K he cant pick which print is from which camera at 20 x 30.
    I had a recent show in Taos NM where I had prints from the XE-1, a Phase One, and from my Mamiya RB67 using Portra 160 film, and ALL hung together rather well.

    • Barbelo

      Per K gave the print sizes (for his uses) in the EU standard..

      A2 420 × 594 mm or in inch 16.54 × 23.39
      A3 297 × 420 mm or in inch 11.69 × 16.54

      That means you are correct in what you suggest when you say “Yes, if you regularly print 30 x 40 or larger you might need the D800.” And since that is exactly what he said it lets you and your “knowledge pearls” really shine. Amazing! And as for the manly rude undercurrent of your posting.. well, thats forgiven – sine you are just the next guest at the daily virtual held dinner for schmucks.

    • DanSmedra

      Agreed. There are so many variables (like the paper used to make wall prints), including ones not related to hardware/technology.

  • mr.x

    Fullframe X200- 16-50mm f0.95 -tq

  • DanSmedra

    Rumor has it, the current WH administration is developing a “peoples” camera…so everyone can have one at a cheaper cost. You may want to delay your purchase to see the specs and design. :)

  • DTB

    Once again, focusing on the wrong camera. If they design another fixed focal length camera before introducing the X-Pro 2, they will upset a lot of people including me. An X-Pro 2 better be announced before next summer…

  • http://deleted Joe

    Fuji could release a x pro 2 full frame next year and the current XF lenses could work in cropped mode similar to what Sony has done with the e-mount lens on the alpha 7(r) cameras. This as long as the camera x mount in the body can fit a full frame sensor which is not clear to me.

  • http://www.jonathanbigi.Com joe

    I just sold ALL my x pro 1 gear and that goes with all primes.
    Just return with a 6D, 40 MM Pancake and the new 24MM IS, for a reasonable price.
    The x pro 1 was the best camera i had, and i regret it a lot… still, impossible to work properly with it, i mean not in every situation and i found Fuji really disrespectful when they started to launch their crazy x deals on the web.
    I mean, i invested almost 4500 Euros in this kit, and look now how much they selling it. For young pro like me it was it. Even if i loved the IQ and the impression to be part of the magnum agency when i was in the street or in reportage situation.
    Maybe i’ll buy un EX1 after the release of the XE2 with the stellar 35MM but for my main camera, i will wait a least 2 more years to get back to a X PRO Something.

    • Neil (another)

      A camera is not an investment. It does the same job no matter how much/little you paid for it. I bought on the high end, too, before prices went down. But it still does what I paid for it to do and I thought it was a good price at the time. The fact that it dropped in price doesn’t matter too much since all it affects is resale. And if you expect a camera body or lens to hold up in value… that’s rare.

      • Jack

        In a way, it is, and it’s bad practice to follow passions, as that leads one to buy high, sell low. It’s better to buy high if you expect to keep it a long time, which you obviously do.

    • Markus

      Hmm. Same can be said for 6D.

      In fact, you can buy a 6D for a whopping 30% off in the grey market. Which means if you buy it through normal channels it immediately has poor resale value.

      Even worse if you bought it on launch.

      And, in any case, Canon camera’s have special offers. Just like Fuji.

      If you jump in and buy a camera and lenses close to launch, then that’s just how it rolls.

  • limlh

    A good chance for Fujifilm to widen its niche appeal.

    X200 – FF, 36 mp, fixed lens 35mm.

    X-Pro2 – FF, 24 mp, interchangeable lens.

    X-E3 – APSC, 24mp, organic sensor.

    • Pelex

      I’m thinking:

      X200: FF 24MP X-Trans, fixed 35 F1.4

      X-Pro 2: APS-C 20MP X-Trans (Organic)

      • DTB

        That would be great…

        If they make a FF X200, they should make it with a fixed 35mm f/1.4 with a 23mm and a 60mm converter, like the existing one. That would be fantastic, as it would not be as limited.

        Regardless, they need to introduce an X-Pro 2 with better AF and a bigger, brighter EVF/OVF early to mid 2014. If it is not full frame, make it at least 24mp

    • Ci-lee

      +1

      I like your thinking there. And being an XP1 owner, I wouldn’t be so upset if the X200 FF came out before a new XP. Just give us a firmware update, I’ll keep my glass regardless of future FF models…was going to get an XE2 as a backup anyway and would relish the thought of an organic APS-C version down the road. Fact is these Fuji X-cams have been the first digital models I’ve decided to keep while upgrading over time…started to feel as if everything was disposable (as is the case for the majority of the CE world nowadays, we all want the latest & greatest), which is a shame bc I look at my film camera collection, some I purchased new but mostly second-hand, and they are really great pieces which I hope to hand down. I’m only 35 but started in photography @ 13 so I was fortunate enough to be thoroughly exposed to film (as the norm not a novelty) while being young enough to fully embrace digital. Anyway, I am just glad Fuji is pushing the envelope but not rushing to market haphazardly and diluting the value of their products and research. Look at Sony, just a couple of years ago, Alpha DSLR was it, then a transition to NEX and SLT…not it looks like Alpha (in its true form) will be gone and SLT was just a fleeting technology for them. I credit them with pushing the envelope as well but they’re just all over the map…

  • PSK

    I for one would feel shafted after having acquired a significant number of Fujinon lenses to find out they will not work on a full frame sensor. My investment in crop sensor Nikon glass kept me from purchasing a FF Nikon body.

    Maybe I will sit out the X-E2, which I was definitely going to purchase when it came out, to better assess the FF line up next year. If next, year I decide the FF route is compelling enough I don’t want to keep buying crop sensor gear this year.

    Too bad Fuji – lost a customer for now.

    • Jack

      You’re basing this kind of decision on a rumor?

      • Jack

        (A rumor of a FIXED FOCAL LENGTH, full-frame camera, no less.)

  • Fujimoto

    This is great news. It looks like we will have a choice…APS-C or FF.

  • john

    Fuji has to be fast. If not, by then, most would have upgraded to Sony A7. Fuji would have to give a Full Frame lens roadmap like previously done with the launch of Xpro-1. Fuji would have to let the consumers know they are indeed developing full frame X system. There is no point to keep it as secret anymore since Sony NEX full frame has been launched. The only way Fuji can be better than Sony is to launch full frame fast prime lens (like f1.4. or f1.2). Some argue the the body is too small to support the lens. But, i think there is a preference whereby u can use the battery grip to balance it out for fast lens (i.e. f1.4). And when using smaller lens, then can just take out the battery grip. So, the option is there and it is flexible. It can be a big or small camera body (i.e. with or without battery grip) to balance out the weight of the lens (depending on which lens u are using). So, making a fast lens (for example 35mm f1.4) is feasible for a Full Frame X camera, in that sense. Fuji, just do it.

    • Alan W

      I’d like to see a poll posted—if Fuji does not make a FF X-P camera, how many current X-P1 owners will switch systems?

      I’ll vote right now—not me. I like the size of the entire package. Not too small (preference for X-P size over X-E) and not too large (especially if AF full frame lenses are called into play. I use FF manual lenses all the time, but they are much svelter than their AF brethren.)

      • DTB

        In my opinion, and as a current X-Pro 1 user, Fuji has two options for the X-Pro 2:

        1) design a significantly improved APS-C sized mirrorless camera with a 24mp sensor (with significantly improved AF, a brighter, larger EVF/OVF, weather sealed, minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, face detection AF; and, introduce a 1:1 fast prime 100mm macro w/ IS, and short-to-long fast telephoto lenses)

        2) design a full frame X-Pro 2, which is reasonable in size and designed similar to the X-Pro 1, with a set of high-quality fast primes and a brighter, larger EVF/OVF, etc

        Since the second option would require a full set of new lenses, and thus cannibalize development of APS-C sized lenses, perhaps it would be smart to choose option one, and focus on dominating the APS-C market. That said, if they can design a high-quality, reasonably sized full frame X-Pro 2, that would be very appealing.

        I think they should announce their intentions early, via a roadmap for bodies or just a public announcement, as people like myself are hesitant to buy new lenses in anticipation of possibly buying a full frame X-Pro 2. So, please let everyone know, so we can make decisions on future purchases…

      • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

        Even if 100.00% of all current X-Pro1 users would now buy the A7 and would not buy another Fuji, is would only be a dent in the overall sales numbers of Fujifilm MILCs.

        Of course, in reality, only a small portion of current X-Pro1 users is even thinking about getting a FF camera, and of these only a portion would switch to Sony. Others would rather switch to a Canikon DSLR, wait for a Fuji FF camera or simply make their peace with APS-C, as a camera as special as the X-Pro1 is hard to find elsewhere. It’s not only about the size of the sensor, it’s about the concept, the handling, the hybrid VF, the retro controls… Usually, that’s why people bought an X-Pro in the first place. This is important to them.

        • http://deleted Chad

          Well said Rico.

          Let’s hear less platform / sensor size bashing and more of this type of common sense.

  • http://andrewnewson.co.uk Andy N

    For me I think full frame is a bit of a red herring. I ditched my D700 for an X-Pro1 and I have no plans on going back.

    I’m pretty sure that the X-Pro1 could not be made full frame without some size increase in body, at least if it keeps the hybrid viewfinder. Increase size (and weight) in body, increase size and weight of lenses, I’m not so interested.

    What is really interesting is Fuji and Panasonic’s work on the organic sensor. I am much more excited about the possibility of a sensor that could effectively make the camera smaller and have better performance, especially in dynamic range.

    We are about to see the X-E2 which at first surprised me, given that the X-Pro1 came first. But perhaps they are holding back their not-so-secret-weapon to put the organic sensor in the X-Pro2. Certainly those photographers flown out to Fuji seem pretty excited about the future of Fuji cameras and I think it’s more likely to come from organic sensors than bigger full frame cameras.

    Cheers.
    Andy

    • Markus

      +1

      All this pressure on Fuji going FF seems a little trolly to me.

      APS-C + Fuji is very competitive to some of the bigger bodied DSLRs.

      Why would they start on a new line of lenses and bloat the body just for a minimal increase in sensor output.

  • Kevin

    A full frame fixed lens would be interesting to bring to weddings/special occasions without getting all the attention. I’ve never had a full frame camera before and would like to try… the RX1 is really out of my price range for a try-to-see-if-I-will-like-it camera!

  • Xophaser

    this is cough decision. I already am vested in nikon FF. Just need a street camera like the x-e2. So this took the thunder and interest away. X-e2 at $1400 (kit) might not be the value I was hoping. But the sony nex ff is so small I might just switch my mind back to a nex FF (have a nex3). fuji FX lenses are expensive for aps-c. Nex lens are cheap IQ, but the new fe with zesis are nice.

    • Wen

      nex FF have very loud shutter sound, something to consider for street cameras.

  • Bemused

    Why does Fuji need to ‘answer’ the A7? Not everyone can afford the 35mm pricing, which is fairly substantial given that it doesn’t bring a huge jump in image quality. I’d caution against thinking that they need to get into an arms race before the technology becomes cheaper.

  • romi.foto

    i think in a turn of event, it wouldn’t be a bad idea of the X-Pro line went the FF route while the X-E line continued the APS-C route. the X-Pro 1 body is large enough for IBIS. anyone here familiar with the Contax G lenses? they’re legacy glass with AF, and they’re small. this change could really push the X-Pro line into the more professional circuit where people who have a X-Pro 1 (and still want to hold on to their D800s, etc. for their more professional/paid work) can finally let go of their DSLRs. i’d definitely invest in that foto system.

  • Johnson C.

    Although X mount can’t cover FF sensor but I think hybrid mount would be great =D
    Make it bigger diameter than current X mount to cover FF sensor size and compatible with current X mount.

  • Carlos Lacroze

    Fuji X series is about IQ, retro size design and overall experience as much as I get it. Improvement comes from a better sensor-lens pair. That means a bigger sensor and a faster lens. No one can denies the huge leap made by the X100/s line. An even better X200 like the proposed here, surely will be apreciatted.

    Nevertheless, a fixed ZOOM lens super compact with a eg 1″ sensor and a ViewfFinder, that could at least challenge the RX100 like the awaited and rumored X30, would be the real hit.

    My dream would be the X200 with a really FAST 24-120 ZOOM lens.

  • Hexx

    If Sony’s new cams featured shutter speed dials and had aperture rings on the lenses I would ditch my X-Pro1 with lenses without even thinking about it. These new cams are just the beginning and there will be much more to come from Sony.
    I hope that while releasing cheap X cameras Fuji was also working hard on FF X-Pro and will give us proper dependable camera worth ‘pro’ moniker.
    Not quite sure if there’s a need for yet another update to fixed lens family honestly, nothing would prevent you from welding a lens of your choice to a FF body.

  • Hieu

    I really really wish a FF X100 2/35 with x pro 1 back panel: Command dial, Navigation button, Q button, Shutter dial like X pro, 1/3 F Stop Apterture ring but keep the Aperture ring style same as X100. This will be a must buy at once for me and of course Silver version. I dont enoy the Black x100 very much. For a amateur like me, I should say that thank you Fujifilm for create such a gorgeous camera like x100 silver. Is there any confirm or trusted rumor about a FF X100 in 2014?

  • Chris

    I love the way the rumour is about X200 FF, fixed lens camera and all the discussion immediately becomes about XP2 FF which was not mentioned, then people start arguing about it !~
    X200FF makes a lot of sense: There are a lot of folks who love the Sony RX1 but want a viewfinder and IS, and a lot of them would not mind if the camera were a little larger, essentially a scaled up X100. I think that would be an incredible camera with a 35mm f2 and I am sure a lot of people ( me included) would buy it.

  • dennis

    well having read most of the arguments going on, on here i want to pull my hair out fuji in my humble opinion have got it a little bit wrong 1st the XP1 then a load of minor variations to please those with not such big wallets, it’s now nearly 2 years since the XP1 and all there has been is firmware. Now an X-E2 which seems to me the beginning of a new XP2 which is long over due for the pro market. There was so much wrong with the XP1 from the outset that now is the time to satisfy us pro who anxiously awaiting its replacement
    I have no axe to grind really as a year ago just i was going to make my purchase i smashed my ankle and that put paid to (pro paid work) for the last year YES it was that bad. Now that i am up and about i’m wanting to get rid of my cash
    I want the Fuji more than ever now got to get rid of all those L lens’ and bodies and travel light as i can’t run as i use to.

  • Fujimoto

    Patrick,

    Have any of your trusted sources confirmed the validity of the X200 FF rumor?

    Thanks

    • patrick

      not until now. I hope to give you an update next week about it. Lemme see what I can dig up for you.

  • herstal

    X200 – FF, 36 mp, fast fixed lens 35mm. Same IQ as the A7R without noisy shutter. It hasn’t to be larger than the xpro1. Fuji can do it, why not?

  • BRH

    What I’d like to see in the next release is an X100s with WR sealed design and an ISO dial like the X-T1.

  • Ricardo Boks

    I hope for a Fuji Medium Format digital X version with a sensor of 33x44mm or larger and 50 MP till 80 MP resolution and a fixed lens of 55 mm.

  • Erik

    How about FF new sensor with 50mm fixed 0.95 lens?