16
Dec
2013

Fuji manager Mr.Kawahara: “We have no plan to provide full frame body just now.”

The website 2how conducted an interview with Fuji manager Mr.Kawahara, that can been seen at youtube here. Here are some topics:

1) He is reluctant to create full frame X series because XF lens would NOT be compatible with full frame camera. “If we launch the full frame body we have to launch the full frame lens too. So it is not good for X-series user.” So there are no plans just now to provide a full frame body.

2) No plan “just now” of a X-PRO1 successor, so “we should improve the response of X-PRO1 by firmware upgrade”.

3) Because of the high customers demand, Fujifilm considers to use sensors with more than 16MP in future.

4) Keep the size of XC lens with larger aperture value is almost impossible, because the optic technology is limited and cannot be solved easily, unlike technological limit.

5) Fujfilm will continue to support and improve its cameras via firmware update: “We want you to use our camera longer and longer in your life.”

Thanks for telling me about the video, Vivat

And if you also find or hear something that could be of interested for the Fujirumors community, feel free to share it anonymously via rumor box or email at fujirumor@gmail.com

greetz

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  • http://deleted Fred Cartier Bresson

    But what about all those owners who were angry with Fuji because they had read somewhere that someone had suggested that Fuji might one day produce a full frame X camera?

    Now they must be really angry because they were made angry unnecessarily. And no doubt that will be Fuji’s fault too!

    • MJr

      ‘had read somewhere that someone had suggested that’

      People who take something like that so seriously it’s their own fault really.

      The whole FF thing is one big overrated placebo anyway. The benefits of apsc easily outweigh the trouble that FF would bring upon both the system and the user at this time. The only reason i would want it myself is to use old SLR and Leica lenses without crop, but in the end the quality of the image depends on the lens, not the sensor behind it, and Fuji sure has proven themselves with what they have delivered so far.

      I’d rather see the new roadmap to have lots of new fast and/or compact lenses, rather than them starting all over again with some new system, and lenses that won’t make sense on any current camera body .. or the X-Pro1s/X-Pro2 Mr.Kawahara subtly suggested!

      • http://deleted Fred Cartier Bresson

        “in the end the quality of the image depends on the lens, not the sensor behind it”

        No, it depends on both, just as it did with film..

        • Andy

          Are you sure? I was led to believe it was the nut behind shutter that made the real difference.

          • MJr

            This is correct !

        • MJr

          Not even close to how it was with film. Comparatively it was childsplay to reach the limits of 35mm film with even the cheapest of lenses. While today’s it’s the other way around, with sensors nowhere near its limits yet. There is plenty of room to improve without increasing sensor size. That might have been the only way in the old days, but not today. Not that there is anything to complaint about as is, nothing that FF would fix, they just need to keep going as they are.

          • http://deleted Fred Cartier Bresson

            So MJR, the sensor doesn’t affect image quality? Of course it does, just as film affected/affects image quality.

            How on earth can you say that the choice of film doesn’t affect image quality?

          • MJr

            Man you just take everything black ‘n white huh. I never claimed either of those things. The topic was sensor size, and the point is that FF doesn’t change the fact that in the end it’s the optics that can and will have to take advantage with any reasonably sized sensor. Going FF just means doing the same thing all over again, it isn’t just better by itself, it only offers the ability to take things further, but so does apsc. Meaning that so long as there is still room to improve here, it’s not worth it.

          • MJr

            And again, i don’t know why you find this so difficult, but film and digital are in fact the opposite. Where film was at it’s limit leaving no choice but to increase size, sensors are not, so do not need to increase size until they are. Certainly not when what it can do now is perfectly fine. If not, you’re doing it wrong.

            How on earth can you not understand such a simple concept. And why the hell are we talking about film.

          • http://deleted Fred Cartier Bresson

            MJr, you stated that the quality of the image depends on the lens, not the sensor. I simply pointed out that it depends on both. Hardly controversial. Clearly you haven’t a clue what I was talking about, so we’ll leave it at that.

            BTW, I work full time as a photographer and have done for the last 24 years, so I do have some idea.

      • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

        These are the people that can’t produce with what they got in hand. They are always looking ahead instead of working in the present.

        This shot of ‘Carla and Babydoll’ was shot with a 6mp cropped RD-1 with Zeiss 21mm in 2012.

        http://danielteolijrcurrent.tumblr.com/image/41300935147

        How many of the pixel peepers would bother with a 6 mp cam in this day and age? Carla is in quite a few collections of museums and public institutions are around the world. While I wish I had used more mp…6mp was what I had that day.

        Underscores the old adage…“What is the best cam in the world? – The one you have with you!”

        • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

          It is all these things. No ‘one thing’ is king. There are many iconic photos that are fuzzy, blurry and a mess. They still are fantastic. On the other hand, it is nice to have high quality ability within our reach if we need it.

          Look at all the Leica Monochrom’s and D800′s on the used market. Photogs think they will be the greatest photog on earth is they just get their hands on one. After a few weeks of shooting, the bubble bursts and they realize their problem was not the cam.

          • Dave

            @ Daniel D.T. Jr

            All time best posts – thanks!

        • MJr

          Nice to see at least some people get it, once in a while. :)

    • Renato S.

      serves them right! and the rumors were about a FF in 2015!!! which is kind of far and can still happen.

      oh, panicking! even more because if Fuji had gone FF, they wouldn’t stop their support to the APS-C cameras, it would be highly unlikely due to their philosophy.

      at the moment they still have a lot APS-C stuff being developed and they probably don’t have all the cash to support both for now, but when the APS-C system is more mature, they might do it.

    • C. C.

      This does not have anything to do with the rumored fixed-lens FF Fuji camera – that is, an X200. Fuji is talking about not going FF at this time with the interchangeable lens cameras.

      But they could still produce a fixed-lens FF, as they would just have to deal with creating a single fixed lens. Sony did it with the RX1.

      • chrisd999

        Agree with this, but the only reason Sony released the RX1 was to kick the tires on FF before they invested all their marbles on it. If FF is a big hit for Sony, they will abandon their APS-C format.

        • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

          Unlikely that the abandon the format that 90%+ of their NEX customers buy, but hey, if Sony is THAT stupid, others will quickly pick up those unhappy abandoned Sony users.

    • Larry Z.

      No… That’s no it! I’m angry I ever got the chance to put an OTUS 55MM ON my X-E1 and behold detail and contrast so incredible that it made it clear to me that nobody needs full frame!!!!!! Only to find out that if I wanted to take that lens out into the world I would need to sell a kidney and my first born!!! I HOPE THE XF 56MM CAN BE CLOSE THAT.

    • Larry Z.

      But if we could get a bigger sensor I would prefer a 4:5 or a 4:3 so long it fits induce the image CIRCLE oF the xf 14 2.8!!!!

    • Raist3d

      I am sorry but I find this a ridiculous proposition. If a “Fuji user” is going to be “made angry” because they decided to read some rumor that is not Fuji’s problem, it’s that user’s problem. Fuji (or any company) can only do so much.

      - Raist

      • http://deleted Fred Cartier Bresson

        It was a dig at those who were jumping up and down and getting upset with Fuji just because of some vague rumour.

        • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

          Less jumping and more contemplating can sometimes be beneficial. ;)

    • http://keithtowers.zenfolio.com/ Keith

      I gave up 7 years of Canon FF for a humble X100 LE version and now use the Fuji period. It’s a camera that I can really feel at home with after just plodding on with heavy digital SLRs for the past 10 years.

      I have just had two entries of mine short listed for the Isle of Wight Photographer of the Year competition out of 350 entrants, both my shots taken with the X100. So thank you Fuji very much indeed. A superb camera still, even though it has been superseded by a newer model.

  • Christophe

    Good news (for me).
    1/ I do not care about FF
    2/ I care about more pixels, I want the smaller sensor to keep the advantage of the crop factor over FF.

    nd I am waiting for the organic sensor !!!

    • Geoff

      Well, they could simply keep the current X-Trans sensor technology but “cut” them as full frame. Then, like Nikon for instance, add a “crop” feature to use the existing XF / XC lineup, displaying in the OVF / EVF / screen the cropped field of view. You would get the best of both worlds!

      Really? Nobody wants to use almost any old manual lenses, and keep their full frame potential, with a simple adapter? Canon FD 85mm f1.2, Rokkor 58mm f1.2, Leica, Voigtlander…??? Sure that Fuji does not want the customer to do this…

      • Gorgon Empire

        +1 Agree on crop feature. Time to have X-FF, along X-APSC

    • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

      I’d like a FF 28mp X200. The X100 is a little gem with it’s silent shutter. Although the only thing I use it for is taking pix at the theatre. There is a sign there, “No Photography!” So I have to be quiet. The Fuji XE-1 is too loud.

      This is what X100 produces from back a few rows, cropped, high ISO, wide open and slow shutter speed. Just doable by my standards as a nice snapshot.

      http://wheelingwv.tumblr.com/

      • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

        Sorry, link to the pix I wanted to use did not work. Tumblr wont let me use links for multi pix.

        You can see some of the X100 theatre shots at the site though. Just scroll down.

        Compare them to this one, which was shot with the XE-1

        http://wheelingwv.tumblr.com/image/61819780985

        You can see the difference between X100 and XE-1

        A FFX200 would be fantastic! And if not, then we work with what we got.

  • http://asylum-photo.com Asylum Photo

    Glad to hear it. :)

    • Milo

      Good news.

  • Carlos Lacroze

    What about the X30 project? Better put, when?

    • Rick

      Yes now that FF and X-Pro has been put to bed for awhile what about the X30? Will it be the rumoured weather proof camera? Will Fuji have an answer to the Sony RX10/Oly Stylus 1?

      • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

        Sure, there will be answers, as those are interesting products. It remains to be seen how well they are going to be received.

  • TD

    Great move from Fuji, FF equivalence with APS-C has nothing to do (today) with image quality.

    They produce among the best lenses in the world, they have a fully working high-class ecosystem, why would they change ?

    I’ll stay with Fuji !

  • TJM

    I hope this draws a line under the issue. Fair enough people were wondering about investing in Fuji APSC as a result of the confusion but the full frame debate was getting a bit dull.

    The X series is fairly unique in it’s blend and seems to be growing well. Glad to here Fuji have confidence in their commitment. Good news.

    • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

      Correct me if I am wrong. But as far as old school controls with shutter dial on top…it is only Fuji and Leica. If so, that is unique as hell. (Oh…forgot Nikon’s $3000 16mp DLSR.)

  • David B

    I’ll buy a 24th sensor Fuji when it comes out next year. I used to own Sony nex 7 and the detail at base iso was phenomenal. Fuji should have had 24mp in xe2 already but decided not to.

  • MJr

    Ah provoking title, but that’s not what he said, he said “we have no plan ‘just now‘ to provide a fullframe body”. And he really put emphasis on the just now part. :) For the reasons mentioned again and again, it would need FF lenses too, which “is not good for x series user” meaning they apparently don’t have the time to do both ..just now. And i agree, lets get the very best out of the perfectly good apsc system first.

    Very interesting interview overall.

    • patrick

      I’ve updated the title and the post

    • Scott

      I rather have even better noise control over more MP. Only someone printing 24″ wide all the time needed’s FF and 24 MP and thats up in the air too. No I know prints at 100% LOL.

    • Halo

      Interesting that Mr. K.emphasizes the disadvantages of turning to FF and doesn’t quite seem to see the need for it either. However, if the users demand it, they are prepared to make it, he says. I think it’s quite obvious that the market for such a camera would be very limited though, and I believe most of us are pleased that Fujifilm will stay on its path, at least “for now”.

      Mr. K. also invite FF fans to present their arguments: Why should Fujifilm make a FF X camera? In other words, neither the possible increased resolution and better noise levels in low light, the (relative) DOF advantage or the alleged “magical” 35mm factor seems to have convinced them yet.

      To me all the pro FF arguments appear rather marginal, and considering the unavoidable increased size, weight and price of such a system, not to forget leaving the majority of X users on the sidelines, I think it’s a wise decision to let it be.

      • MJr

        Completely agree. :)

  • Olivier

    No plans for an X Pro successor right now, but working on firwmare updates to improve camera response time

  • ste787

    a little disappointed. but basically they screw up by starting x-pro 1 with no thought of future full frame.
    i think they have no technical know how to build full frame sensor, but they claim to not go for it because of X mount lenses.

    • Raz

      Maybe they decided that the compromises required to include a full frame sensor weren’t worth it? These people aren’t idiots, I’d be very surprised if they didn’t have a discussion about sensor sizes at the time they designed the X-Pro. So no, they didn’t screw up anything.

      • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

        You have to wonder…Focus by wire???

        The only thing missing is a robot with a button to press so the robot can then press the shutter release.

        • Raz

          Er not so much. It simplifies the lens design and potentially lowers the cost. If you hate AF/focus by wire you’re more than welcome to use adapted fully manual lenses.

          • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

            Samyang if offering their full line of MF lenses for X-Mount, so that’s an option for this niche. No need for Fuji to compete with Samyang and other MF (legacy) glass.

    • nwcs

      That’s total bunk. They made a business decision, and likely a smart one, not to start out the gate with 35mm frame sizes.

    • JK

      People buying cameras usually don’t want the manufacturer to change the sensor size in a line of cameras. So producing a new X-Pro2 with a FF sensor would be a stupid decision. X-Pro1 users would be forced to either buy new lenses or switch to the X-E? line of cameras.
      If Fuji ever is going to build FF sensor cameras, the will have to introduce a new line of cameras.
      You don’t see Nikon or Canon switching sensor sizes in their series of cameras. There will not be a Canon Rebel camera with a FF sensor, it just doesn’t make sense.

      • http://deleted Fred Cartier Bresson

        “You don’t see Nikon or Canon switching sensor sizes in their series of cameras. ”

        What do you think they did when they introduced the D3?!!!!

        • Raz

          The Nikon F mount long predates anything digital, when they first made digital SLRs it wasn’t possible to use a full frame sensor (think cost/yield etc). It’s not like they designed the mount for APS-C then one day realised they could put a full frame sensor inside instead.

          • JK

            That is not the same situation – if you have FF lenses already it would not be that much of a problem. But most people using the X-Pro1 have APS-C lenses so far. They would have to replace them to use the FF body.

        • tino

          Did you not remember Nikon was lying through their tooth and insist there was no FF plan right before the D3 introduction?

          You whatever this Fuji guy said now means absolutely nothing.

    • Antoine

      Haha You have no clue! They go FF because they know they’d face the same problem Sony is facing now with the A7: the impossibility to provide fast AF lenses that are not huge, heavy and pricey on FF. The Sony A7 system is only great if either you’re okay to use only manual lenses (like Leica users) or okay to use huge, heavy and expensive fast AF lenses like some fashion/studio photographers are. If you don’t fall in these 2 categories APSC is the way to go all the more since new sensors will probably take you to today’s FF IQ in a couple of years.

  • Matt

    Who on Earth writes these press releases? the English and grammar is appalling.

    Japanese manufacturers seem to forget the rest of the world isn’t Japan

    • Koji

      The west seems to forget, the world is not English

      • Hik

        You nailed it! ;) :)

      • Andy

        And the East seem to forget most western countries are not English. Ignorance proliferates on both sides of the divide…

  • http://martin-doppelbauer.de Martin

    We have been hearing a lot about Kaizen lately.
    In my opinion, going to FF would be like Harakiri for Fuji :-)
    Why?

    1) Fuji’s main marketing message of today is “our cameras are just as good as full frame cameras”. Although technically wrong, Fuji has achieved a level of quality, which makes this statement true in practical terms. The image quality of the XF system is more than adequate for almost anything.
    But if they now come out with a FF camera, this would be like saying “Look, we’ve been lying to you about our image quality. We now found that FF is actually much better and so we switch to that system”. Not a good message.

    2) Fuji’s current customers would all be pissed off because Fuji is a much too small player in the camera market to afford two lines of lenses in parallel to each other. So everybody would suspect that sooner or later the XF-line of lenses will be dropped. I want all of Fuji’s attention on the XF lenses – not a co-development of a second line.

    3) Fuji’s differentiation versus Canon and Nikon is basically “we make cameras that deliver a similar image quality but are much smaller, lighter and cheaper (at least compared to the FF monsters and their lenses)”.
    Now when Fuji goes FF, where is their differentiation? “Look, we can make FF cameras just as good as the other guys” ? Not enough, I’m afraid.
    The markt for retro FF cameras has just been entered by Nikon and the market for mirrorless FF is already taken by Sony. Not a good basis for a fresh start.

    In any case, even if they DO plan to enter the FF market, they can never let that information slip until they are perfectly ready to ship the camera. Sales of their current cameras will drop immediately and they can not afford to have such a situation for a long time before the new camera becomes available.

    • Zony

      The differentiation for Fuji would have been “We make a FF mirrorless camera.” Their only competition would have been Sony. The starting point would be a fixed-lens, leaf-shuttered compact FF camera.

      Personally, this is disappointing news to me because I wanted a broader Dynamic Range of FF with the Fujifilm colors. Hopefully, the next APS-C Fuji will have the organic sensor that promises the extended dynamic range and increased resolution with finer pixel pitch. Fuji, you have had a organic sensor prototype for over 10 years, please stop dawdling and release it in commercial form.

      Agree with the poster herein about the NEX 7- it is astonishing to me that Fuji decided to make the X-E 2 with just a 16MPx sensor instead of the 24MPx sensor, but I guess they didn’t want to be dead-last in the AF speed race.

      • Jonavin

        Hard to be dead last in AF when you have the wonderful EOS M ;) but I get your point. Frankly I think 16MP is plenty. I would not trade a higher mp sensor if I have to sacrifice high ISO and low light noise.

        I agree they should put all their efforts behind the organic sensor. They might even be able to achieve par dynamic range and sensitivity as FF sensors with an organic APS-C, then the whole FF argument is moot (except those who want medium format at FF sizes).

        • Zony

          I would agree with you, but the camera you mentioned has been superseded (superspeeded?) by the EOS M2 . I really do not know how Canonophites can not be up in arms over the M2 not being released in the States. But, that’s another kettle-o’-fish.

          Having shot with a Sony APS-C 24MPx camera before, one must cherish Fuji’s other attributes than resolution. The Metabones adapter can certainly narrow that gap, but such an adapter could be used on the NEX 7 as well.

          Sadly, I own the slowest autofocusing camera, the Sigma DP3M. I actually have to tell people “Please wait while it ‘autofocuses’.”

          • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

            I use the Merrill like a tiny field camera.

          • http://deleted hexx

            @ Rico – the same here, high res monster

      • EJPB

        I cannot believe my eyes that so many people are believing that the Fuji X system would dramatically increase in IQ by implementing a FF line. I own a D800, X100 and X-Pro1. Each system makes sense under particular circumstances. Each system can deliver the best pictures you’ve ever seen, but also extremely poor ones. The D800 misses in low light as much the clear focus as a X-Pro1, due to its extremely high resolution and mirror movement at slow shutter speeds – sorry for all the silly nonsense stories propagated on forums and blogs. The same for the pixel peepers, there is hardly ANY affordable lens on the market that is able to resolve more than 20MP, while the REAL dynamic of the X-trans is just gorgeous (look at the detail in shadows, hidden in your RAW-files). And the D800′s sensor with traditional Bayer layout is also showing some artifacts at pixel level, just as the X-trans does, while there are not many Nikkor’s not showing Chromatic aberration in some way, while the Fujinons win from most (even very expensive FF-) DSLR lenses hands down. We don’t need FF in the X-series, as long as Fuji is able to produce very fast glass with an excellent optical performance. If it wasn’t the plan from the beginning I doubt it will ever be the intension to release an X-range using the current XF-geometry, suddenly opening the gates to the ‘magic’ FF-experience. Bringing you at most a gain of 10% better IQ for the pixel peepers and 0% on prints. And a bit better bokeh, at least if you do better than most FF DSLR-owners, buying slow zooms because the others are costing an arm and a leg.

        • http://deleted Fred Cartier Bresson

          If you insist on looking at your D800 files at “pixel level”, i.e. at absolutely massive sizes and probably close-up as well, then of course you can see artefacts. What do you expect when you view/reproduce a photographic image at such a huge size?

          Do you compare files between X-Pro1 files and D800 files at pixel level? If you do, then the X files are bound to look better because you are viewing them at a smaller size. The smaller you view an image on screen, the better quality it will appear.

          However, saying that there is no real difference in image quality between FF and APS is just not the case, except that most people would compare like with like. Compare images from, say, a Nikon D300S with those of a D700 and you would see a substantial difference, particularly at higher ISOs. Same with a D600 and D7100.

          Every FF camera that Nikon has ever made produces image quality, again particularly at higher ISOs, significantly better than any APS camera that it has ever made.

          There isn’t an equivalent FF to compare with the X-Pro1, because Fuji doesn’t make one, so any comparison made between the X-Pro1 and other cameras tells you nothing about the relative merits of APS vs FF.

  • Petteri Sulonen

    @ste787, Sony makes the sensors; Fuji just specified different colors on the filter array. There’s no technical reason they couldn’t use a bigger one if they wanted to.

    Personally I think APS-C is the quality/bulk/price sweet spot, both for lenses and sensors, that 24 x 36 was in film days. FF is more a bragging rights thing than something that makes any practical difference. It makes about one stop of difference, and most of that is made up by the lenses. So I for one am happy that Fuji aren’t splitting their forces between FF and APS-C.

    (Speaking as a former FF shooter here.)

    • ste787

      @ste787, Sony makes the sensors; Fuji just specified different colors on the filter array. There’s no technical reason they couldn’t use a bigger one if they wanted to.

      sony manufacture the sensors in their semiconductor fabs.
      the customer like nikon, fuji design their own sensors, gave it to sony fab and they produce it for their customer.
      sony do not design fujifilm sensor, fujifilm design it.

      nvidia design GPU and TSMC manufacture for them. nvidia does not go to TSMC and ask them to build a chip for them.

  • beans

    “If we launch the full frame body we have to launch the full frame lens too. So it is not good for X-series user.”

    Where does any of this preclude that a FF Fuji user is your typical X-series user?

    • ronin

      When he says it is not good for the user, he means it is not good for Fuji. They are struggling to keep this X line viable as it is. I have no doubt 135 format was suggested by the product people, but was shot down by corporate. How could they justify the huge expense and huger risk at this point?

  • Raz

    This is good news for anybody who has or is looking to buy into the X system, lenses are supposed to be an investment that last you for years and a new body making them all obsolete would be a huge kick in the teeth to Fuji’s customers.

  • http://www.studioleica.com studioleica@gmail.com

    What about XPro2 24mp camera ?

    • Olivier

      Did you watch the video?

  • Robch

    so why is the x-pro1 discoutinued? (or is it not?)

  • Ken McBride

    I personally think that the Full Frame debate should be treated as a red herring. I think that the killer punch that Fuji could deal would be an X-Pro2 with a slightly larger sensor (with the ability to shoot a smaller file in required) and incorporating a ‘leaf shutter’.
    An X series camera with a small form factor, high quality glass and a leaf shutter would create a legendary camera that the competition would have no answer for.
    The leaf shutter technology is there. Please put it into the X-Pro2.
    P.S. I am changing from Canon 1Ds over to the Fuji system because it is lighter and there is no real compromise in the quality of the printed output.

  • DanM

    “We want you to use our camera longer and longer in your life.”

    I like this attitude. Fuji fill a niche that they need to exploit. They don’t need to go full frame, just perfect what they already have. Why even waste resources trying to compete with full frame companies? Carry on doing what you’re doing Fuji, it’s great. I have a whole fleet of nikons, but they don’t get me as excited as the Fuji’s. I will get one soon!

    • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

      That is very odd coming from a company. Companies usually make things to self destruct ASAP so you will buy into the next and best. I prefer to be happy with what I got and use it. I hate having to keep buying equipment and learning it. It is like wearing well fitting, broken in clothes when you can shoot your same gear year in year out. You can work to become one with your gear.

      What do you see on the forums…What did you buy? What are you planning to buy? When I ask about projects of ‘what you plan to shoot,’ there is not much feedback. Seems people plan to buy more than they plan to shoot.

  • Petteri Sulonen

    @Ken, a leaf shutter would have to be in the lens. You can’t put it at the focal plane. It would be too big and too slow. A bigger sensor would not work with at least some of the current lens line-up. None of the current lenses would work on it. Is the trade-off worth it?

    I’m waiting for mechanical shutters to become unnecessary altogether. A fully electronic shutter is perfectly silent, can be as fast as you like, and has X-sync down to ridiculously fast speeds. AFAIK none of the APS-C sensors currently on the market can do this with no image quality problems, though; the readout phase in particular needs the sensor to be covered.

    • Ken McBride

      Thank for the clarification on the leaf shutter. If they pursued the electronic shutter option that would be even better. Sync speed is a real problem that I continually encounter. Someone is going to solve and I hope that it is Fuji as they are the only camera manufacturer that ‘IS’ listening.
      By the bigger sensor I meant bigger megapixel count and not the size. 21 megapixel with options for 16 and 13 megapixels in the menu.

      • Petteri Sulonen

        Ah, cool, yeah. A few more pixels couldn’t hurt.

        Since we’re speculating wildly, you know what kind of sensor I’d like to see? Something with ridiculously high pixel count and a filter array consisting of various densities. Suppose you had, say, 120 MP, divided between R, G, B, neutral -3 stops, neutral -1.5 stops, and neutral, in a known matrix. You could take that data and reconstruct, say, a beautifully sharp 25 MP image with several stops more DR than with a conventional sensor and no visible demosaicing artifacts.

      • Neil

        Is 21 megapixels really going to make your photos better? Genuine question
        I have 6MP shots blow up to a2 that are great photos.
        wider dynamic range yes, more pixels – just bigger files surely?
        ive always resisted the urge to buy more mega pixels – why is it so important?

        • http://www.capturevated.com Gaffman

          I don’t always think its a question about making them better. But a little extra resolution can add flexibility for cropping of ones images.

          Example: A studio portrait shooter might love the expression of their subject in one shot but sees that the composition was too wide, an error on their part sure but with many modern cameras there is enough resolution perhaps to recompose afterwards and crop in. That frame is now usable in a way that perhaps wasn’t possible before.

          For myself, I’m happy with the 16mp but would consider an ideal range of 20-24mp.

          • Neil

            thanks for your reply. Im not trying to insult – i just wonder if we were at the stage of 6MP camera would you be saying 10-12 was ideal range. would you have said 24 then? if you get 24 would you start saying idea range was 36-42?
            I just think that some of this is the wanting of something better and bigger in a way the expression of moores law re computing. we get used to things getting faster and bigger. some call it gear lust some call it – wanting to push the boundaries.
            I’ve just tried to purposely not to get sucked into that. when i bought my first fastish lens for a canon camera i lost loads of good shots by leaving it at f1.8. the tech was getting in the way of the image i wanted to capture.
            i can understand a commercial photographer needing to crop out something but i doubt many will be using a x series for their work if it needs to be much bigger than a magazine size.

          • Neil

            sorry what I’m trying to say is for most of us – improving our images might be – learning to compose better, learning how to use the camera we have better, using a different lens, different technique etc rarely is more megapixels going to make the image better. yes a drastic crop – but if you are doing that a lot – move or get a different lens?

  • Hexx

    We can’t compete with Sony on price when it comes to FF ;) “now”

  • Andrew

    Just do a FF X200

    • Gorgon Empire

      Yes, let’s start the ball rolling with this. Once they see the $$$’s rolling in, they’ll re-think their FF commitment. There is absolutely no reason not to have two X-series lines running concurrently.

      • nwcs

        No technical reason, perhaps MANY business reasons. Fuji is still losing money, they don’t want to lose even more money spreading themselves even more thinly.

      • Raz

        Yes why not double their costs to appease the people who think slightly larger sensors are the only way to take photos ;)

  • Sparta

    I am deeply saddened by this news.

    • Scott

      They just don’t have time to do it just now, give it a year or so.

      • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

        Deeply saddened??

        Why?

        Can’t you produce with Fuji as-is? Is FF the only thing standing between you and success?

        As I said, I placed ‘Carla and Babydoll’, which was 6mp RD-1, in many museums worldwide. 16mp Fuji should be a gift for you.

        http://wheelingwv.tumblr.com/image/68125791156

        • lalala

          hahahahah

  • Adrian

    Is the ‘just now’ in ‘we won’t make a FF camera just now’ the same as the ‘just now’ in ‘we won’t replace the X-Pro1 just now’? If it is, then I might have to wait for the X-Pro 2 more than I’d like and may well have to decide whether or not to go FF at that time :).

  • Valentino

    Never cared about FF but have no need for more pixels. Would prefer better quality, DR and Noise, instead of a sensor that shows diffraction softening and bigger files. 16mm is great for 16 x 24 prints and my printer can’t go beyond 13×19″. So it looks like Fuji will cave and go for quantity to market over quality – the ugly Nikon Df has only 16mp and if ideal for IQ in terns of noise…

    Remember, 24mp is not 50% more resolution since these values are area, not linear. It is closer to 25% more. Consider the long dimension, 6000 pixels vs 4800 pixels, 25% difference

  • EX-Fuji

    Do I love the XF lenses – YES, they rock!!!
    Do I love the way Fuji pushes firmware – YES, I wish this was more common!
    Do I love the manual dials on my X-E1 – YES, I always wanted that!!
    Do I like the fact that on my last family reunion I had to throw away 29 out of 73 shots because they were out of focus? …..(No I do not buy fast lenses to shot at F11)

    In order to fix the AF I’d have to get an E-X2 (=spend cash) but that’s not guaranteed either reading some reviews. While I’m at spending cash I might as well go Sony A7 which would be just as fast as the X-E2 plus be full frame and resolve a lot more.

    Sorry Fuji, I’d love to see an X-FE1 but looks like you’re gonna be history in the CSC market very soon :(

    • Neil

      Dont understand x-e2 is £709 and you sound like you have all the lenses already
      Sony A7 £1080 body only and you need lenses – hardly a fair comparison

      Personally Ive had an X100 an X100s and now a X-e2.
      yes the x100 missed a load of shots for focus but ive not had any significant problems with the s or xe2. yes the odd miss with a room full of kids all running around

      • EX-Fuji

        Why not? I’ll sell the Fuji lenses as well and only have to deal with the delta. The main driver is more frustration about all the lost shots. If that costs me a bit extra to fix I’m happy to do so.

        The last Fuji releases sent a clear message – time to cover the lower end. I just don’t think this is a good strategy, at least not from a technology point of view.

  • http://www.picsimage.com arnold

    To think that Fuji is not technically capable is truly underestimating the many businesses this company is engaged in. I don’t care about FF, I care about the quality of the image. My suspicion is they understand that the size of the sensor does not matter, that what you do with the sensor matters more. This is evidenced by their unique treatment of the baysian filter pattern and their use of incorporating Lens modulation technology. There is way more to image quality than size of sensor and number of pixels.

    • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

      Fuji does have fantastic sensors. No question about that.

    • http://www.capturevated.com Gaffman

      If you’ve ever had the pleasure of using or owning a Sigma DP Merrill series camera (APS-C) or at least read a few reviews, you’d also see that sensor design has much more influence than just size alone. Not everything about the Sigma’s is right but the detail and richness is astonishing thanks to its non-bayerd Foveon sensor.

      If Fuji can make their organic sensor work for them then they’ll have the IQ increase we all crave without the size and lens system downfalls we don’t want.

      • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

        Foveon is nice, and Sigma is working on a system camera with Foveon. I expect it to be APS-C. Organic sensor? I hear it’s still vaporware, could be as far as 5 years aways from mass production.

  • Walid

    I can’t disclose any sources but I can guarantee that FF is on Fuji’s Roadmap for 2014 or 2015. I’m interpreting from Mr. Kawahara’s statements that this is likely to be a X200 then.

    • 18in32

      Hmm… anonymous Internet rumor or direct quote from Fuji executive? Which do I trust more? Or perhaps you’d care to tell us what your “guarantee” consists of?

  • TJM

    Patrick, If I’ve been following this discussion right for the last few months, does this now mean we’re looking at:

    - No X-Pro 2 any time soon – possibly waiting for organic sensor until 2015 ish and keeping it refreshed with firmware? Maybe delay is caused by them trying and failing to improve the Hybrid VF? Which has lead to:
    - A weather sealed SLR form factor body with big bright EVF and enthusiast/pro focus to go in between X-E2 + Pro 1 in Jan with weather sealer lenses? – Might this be 24 mp?
    - Slimming possibility of a FF X-200 – Maybe 24mp or organic sensor instead?

    Top end of the line seems a bit wooly at the moment it’ll be interesting to get a clearer picture of their strategy – hopefully we’ll here something soon.

    • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

      Weather sealing all around would be nice. But I use my Fuji’s like they are disposables, so dodn’t care that much. The bodies are cheap enough as are the Samyang lenses.

      If I have to sacrifice one for a great pix I don’t mind. I’ve shot the Fujis in wet weather, drizzle , snow, etc. No problems as yet. I’d prefer Fuji keeps quality high and prices low.

      • http://www.capturevated.com Gaffman

        True Daniel, but this is probably more of a market move on their part. With Olympus and Sony now offering weather sealed mirrorless cameras it puts Fuji under pressure to meet market expectations (note I didn’t say demands), whether users truly need those features or not. A weather sealed X couldn’t hurt, I just always assumed it would be the X-Pro2. Combined with a pair of f/2.8 weather sealed zooms and that market sector would be satisfied.

        Makes little difference to me either, I chose Fuji for their dedication to small, fast, high quality prime lenses.

        • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

          Indeed. It’s all about what users want, not what they need. If 100,000 users believe that they need a FF X-Pro2 and would actually pay the price for it (at least 400 dollars more expensive than a A7r due to the hybrid dual viewfinder), Fuji would build and offer one ASAP. It could be ready for Photokina if Fuji stopped/delayed the development other X camera projects, like X30 or X-E3.

          That said, Fuji sold way south of 100,000 X-Pro1 cameras, widely below expectations. They are still clearing 2012 stock, mostly at prices below production cost.

          So where’s the market? So far, it’s mostly in the heads of “gear freaks” in forums. It’s just not out there in reality, yet. That may change, of course. You never know.

          • philsta

            Agree completely – basically commercially X-pro has been a failure, but that has been a flagship for the platform which is essentially a successful marketing tool for the X-series.

            The camera market is getting hit on both sides, Normal poeple realize they know how to use or can’t be bothered to carry a DSLR, DSLR / full frame sales have been falling drastically and thats why Canon / Nikon are destocking and going mirrorless. Fuji also doesn’t have the branding and distribution like Sony or Canon / Nikon as well as full-frame lens support or the cash to fight them in this declining sector.

            On the other end smartphones are eating the compact cameras. There clearly isn’t a market for FF Xpro2 because inherently it is a niche product with no lens support.

          • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

            Yep, it would be another flagship/showcase product, widely discussed, but with rather small actual sales below the 50,000 unit number. This also means that if it comes (and I personally think we may see it in 2015), it will be rather expensive. The three basic (28mm, 50mm, 90mm) prime lenses won’t be cheap, either. There’s no way for Fuji to win a price fight with Sony and other FF vendors. After all, Sony gets their sensors in-house, Fuji has to buy them from Sony (who will know how to protect their turf by pricing their sensors accordingly, especially since Fuji can’t buy more than 50k sensors, anyway, so unlike Nikon, there’s not much leverage on Fuji’s side).

          • tim

            After a while with the XPro1 I’ve come to realize that the Hybrid OVF is kind of useless … unless you use a few of the Fuji Primes 23/35 … and can tolerate missed focus. Its also pretty annoying to use.

            My guess is that most people either use adapted lenses or zoom lenses or want shots in focus – the E cameras are better for that.

            Its a nice idea, but not a rangefinder so somewhat flawed when it comes to focusing, and perhaps there are not that many people who _really_ want a rangefinder after all.

            Its also ugly.

          • A3Jan

            In my opinion Fuji should have fixed the problems with their camera’s first before the issue of all the new models. Most of all the AF is still not good enough. It is just too unpredictable. The X100 was slow but results always were the same. This is not the case anymore with the new models and firmware. Also the different button lay-outs on the different models is a nightmare. I sold my X100s and X-pro 1′s and returned back to my old bulky DSLR’s and I am happy again. Not to worry about the cameras but concentrate on my subject. Back to photography! I still will follow the developments in the mirroless field. May be in a few years the systems are mature and a true usefull tool to photograph with. Looking forward to that moment.

  • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

    I have 5 Fuji’s and a number of their lenses. I use Fuji about 90% of the time for my street work. Basically I use the Fuji as I would a Leica’s. (zone focused) But that is because I can’t afford to shoot with 3 or 4 M240′s. I keep pushing for Fuji to come out with a Leica knockoff or Nikon or Canon or Voigt…anyone that can build an affordable alternative digital rangefinder to the Leica.

    If Fuji is not going FF for the X, then they should think about going FF with a Leica knockoff. A true rangefinder in the 28 to 36mp class…for $3000 or less. Leica not a pros camera any longer, it is is a rich man’s play thing…for their devotees to fondle and drool over. A Fleica (Fuji /Leica) would allow Fuji to make bodies and not worry about making a whole new line of lenses.

    When it comes to 16mp Fuji X, it produces excellent files as-is. I can live without FF very easily. This shot (EX-1 and Fuji 14mm) is a heavy crop of the image.

    http://wheelingwv.tumblr.com/image/70084531350

    Where FF would be nice is if I hade to make bigger prints. Or in this case, where I had to crop a lot. FF would give more flexibility. FF can offer better low light performance since it has to be enlarged less.

    I would hope Fuji can get 24mp to 28mp and better low light performance from the X sensor in the future. I’d also like a simplified EX-1 without all the buttons on the back. Just basic! The pricing of the Fuji X line is very affordable. I was not an early adopter of the X Pro1 due to high cost. But the later cameras with reduced prices were very doable.

    The area where Fuji needs to improve a lot is that of the mechanical design of their lenses. The loose aperture rings can move almost by blowing on them. They wobble and have no positive detents. Fuji, look to Samyang and copy their aperture rings. The manual focus ability of the Fuji lenses is also poor. Whomever invented focus by wire needs to be fired Fuji.

    And everyone knows about the legendary poor AF performance with Fuji. The other day I was shooting with the X100. Nothing great, just a shot of a lit Xmas tree about 10 feet away. It took the X100 4 or 5 tries trying to focus…just terrible Fuji. And to manual focus the X100 is like trying to screw the lid off a jar.

    While Fuji took a step in the right direction with the 14mm and manual focus. The focus scale is a pain to use. The focus ring is too loose…extremely loose. If one locks the focus ring it covers the distance scale. Every time I wish to check my zone focus I have to unlock the focus ring. It is a love / hate relationship when using Fuji lenses.

    Fuji lenses produce high IQ, but they are very hard to shoot street with. And your latest invention with the hybrid aperture rings on your zooms is another pain to use. Fuji. You keep trying to re-invent the wheel…into a square Fuji. Stick with tried and true principles that have served documentary photogs for decades Fuji. Put your urge to invent into the sensor and other areas that wont hurt the doc photog.

    I shot my forthcoming book about 90% with Fuji X 10% with m43. All these pix are zone focused with Samyang lenses. Fuji lenses would never be able to get these shots. But to be fair to Fuji, my M43 would not do good either. (NSFW warning)

    http://ifreeztime.tumblr.com/

    Fuji, all in all…thanks for making such a great camera!

    Dan

    • http://deleted hexx

      28-36mp is overkill for street

      • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

        Not overkill for big prints, low light or heavy crops.

        For monitor viewing and small prints yes, it is overkill.

        • http://deleted hexx

          for low light especially unless you’re using faster shutter speeds (at least that was the case with D800 in my testing which provides more stable start than a mirror less camera)

    • daniel’s film

      Thank you Dan!
      That was very informative input for me about Fuji’s lenses! I was considering an X-E2 but now maybe not. However, if Fuji introduced a couple compact “rangefinder style” manual focus FX lenses i would reconsider.

      How about a 23mm 2.0 with focus tab? and a 35mm 1.8? at least something that has a slimmer profile than the current auto focus lenses. using an X camera with a summicron defeats the purpose of the compactness it offers because it requires the adapter. Also I Q closer to the edges of the frame at wide open aperture is not sharp like it would be on a matched system.

      I currently shoot a variety of M-mount lenses with a Ricoh GXR. I like the build quality of the camera, controls and I Q, however after shooting four continuous shots in RAW, the camera is unable to shoot again for about 10 seconds until its done recording. Im looking for something faster.

      Fujifilm, can you make “fully manual” FX lenses that are fast and compact in the “35″ and “50″ focal length?

      • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

        Fuji could, but they won’t, because they aren’t in the business of deliberately losing more money than necessary.

        The vast majority of Fujinon lenses is MF, btw, and several of them cost way north of 100,000 dollars a piece.

    • Jay

      Everything in this post sounds very sensible. Also, I’m always trying to find others here who also want Fuji to build a rangefinder manual focus camera. Why this idea isn’t popular is beyond me. I refuse to support Leica’s luxury and excess-oriented products, but it’s very hard to hold up any principles when they have a monopoly in digital rangefinders. The image quality of Fujinon lenses is definitely superior though.

  • http://deleted hexx

    “If we launch the full frame body we have to launch the full frame lens too. So it is not good for X-series user.” – this made me laugh, like if those two lines couldn’t live alongside each other and customers pick whatever their wallet allows them.

    • deng

      You’d need resources for keeping and developing these two lines alongside first.

      • http://deleted hexx

        sure you need, but APS-C segment is pretty much there when it comes to lenses and there are bodies from low end all the way up to high end

        • deng

          True.
          So they are most likely working on the fullframe solution, just not the CSC right now.

        • nwcs

          Nope, lots more lenses needed in the current mount. Plus they are losing money even now. Adding FF will cause them to lose money even more and faster. They should shelve FF until they can show they have a sustainable business model.

    • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

      Fuji can keep the X system, refine it and develop a true Leica killer FF rangefinder.

      BUT..whatever you do Fuji. NEVER under any circumstances drop the shutter speed dial on top of the camera. The shutter dial brought me to Fuji and it keeps me with Fuji.

      The program dial on your new cams is a deal buster for me Fuji. I wont buy them. I need instant access to controls Fuji. As well as discrete access.

      The trend is ‘new school’… drop all the trad features in a cam that ahs served us well for decades. Created by the young gun camera fondlers that are not street shooters. Look at the new Fuji 10 zoom…no focus scale for zone work…terrible.

      This was shot with a Fuji X and a 14. Very ahrd to do. But would be impossible with the 10 zoom and no distance scale.

      http://danielteolijrcurrent.tumblr.com/image/70193232658

      • http://deleted hexx

        Yep, traditional controls are the only reason why I picked X-Pro1 over NEX7 when I was choosing between those two

        • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

          The new crops of photogs don’t realize or understand this. They were brought up on new school controls and know nothing else.

      • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

        All XF and XC lenses feature distance and DOS displays for zone focussing. As a matter of fact, the 14mm and 23mm are subpar in this regard, because their distance/DOF scale is engraved in the lens (not electronic) and hence hardly visible in the dark. The electronic scale is always visible, and you can control it in the EVF and/or LCD. You don’t have to take the camera off your eye to change MF settings.

        • http://asylum-photo.com Asylum Photo

          Really wish Fuji would some how find a way to display the info electronically on these two lenses. I love them engraved, and I like the limited focus ring range, but the lack of scale in the viewfinder is not very useful in certain situations.

          • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

            Indeed. Fuji removed the electronic version of the scale in MF because the analog/digital scales don’t match due to different CoCs. The user-friendly way would have been to use matching scales and offer both versions in concert, electronic and engraved. It’s quite confusing as it is now, I’d rather the 14 and 23mm lenses worked like the other XF lenses. That also includes Instant AF in MF mode.

        • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

          On the fly, zone focus is not about having to look at your electronic screen or EVF to figure focus.

          That may be OK for landscapes and stationary objects. But not for serious street and doc work.

          • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

            If you prefer to take pictures while not looking at a screen or through a viewfinder, you are then part of a very special niche. Don’t expect any camera maker to invest in ne products for such a niche. So I’d say it is not gonna happen.

        • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

          Rico, forgot to mention…

          Camera is never at eye level to start with with some shots. If it is even brought to eye once…your screwed.

          Take this shot…

          http://wheelingwv.tumblr.com/image/69810153448

          You don’t have time to look for zone focus electronically. Nor could you do so and stay low key. Nowadays any male photog that shoots kids in public is a pervert. You can’t be fooling around like you mention. One needs plain engraved easy to use distance marking for zone work…not useless, new school ‘electronic scales.’

          When it is dark, your walking, the subject is walking and your AF refuses to focus lock what are you going to do? You have 2 or 3 eye blinks to get the shot. You going to hunt for focus with your electronic focus scale? Your shot is long gone by then.

          http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/image/41195534285

          Listen, I’ve got 44 years shooting experience. I wont steer you guys wrong.

          • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

            I am sorry to hear that you want to only work with the engraved scales on the lens, not the digitally displayed scales on the camera.

            Luckily, I have no problem focussing with the scales on the LCD, I actually prefer it over the analog scale on the lens that is hard to read in darkness and that I don’t see once I look at the LCD or the EVF. I guess you need a different kind of camera to satisfy your very special requirements. I would not wait for Fuji or any other camera maker to cater to this niche anytime soon.

          • daniel’s film

            Daniel, excellent points. How about two Fujifilm XF full manual “rangefinder style lenses”? Compact 23mm2.0 and 35mm1.8 with focus tab.

            using a summicron on the X series cameras defeats the purpose of the compactness if the M-lens by having to add an adaptor. plus I Q suffers.

            I would buy into this system if Fuji would offer these lenses

            -Ricoh GXR M-mount shooter

          • tim

            I did a comparison between the Fuji 35mm and Leica 28 f2.8 with adapter and found none of the issues mentioned. Actually, both were identical in sharpness, the Leica was better for out-of-focus performance (generally smoother where as the Fuji is slightly glaring, as are all Fuji lenses it seems).

            Both are about the same size, a 35mm summicron + adapter will also be about the same size as the 35mm XF.

            Fuji made the M-Adapter … take the hint!

          • daniel’s film

            Tim, thank you very much for your response and information. The point im really trying to make here is : I want a slimmer lens than the XF 35 and 23. Also one slimmer than a summicron with adapter. I want a full manual lens, and one with focus tab and one specifically designed for APS format in X mount. A miniature, “rangefinder” lens. Look how compact the X100 23mm lens is, something like to that.

          • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

            There is a very slim, lightweight 27mm pancake lens. The 18mm is quite slim and compact, too.

          • daniel’s film

            Tim thank you again for your response. I love how slim the 27mm is, however its not what im looking for. Wouldn’t it be awesome to have a lens built like a 35 summicron from Fujifilm specifically designed for the X mount. A “rangfinder style” lens like a summicron 35 specifically for X cameras. aps. mini. wouldn’t that be nice?

          • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

            I have certainly no interest.

          • daniel’s film

            I want it from Fujifilm or from Voigtlander. and I want it available now.

  • yitwave

    Oh no! The more firmware updates indicate the x-pro will be even more improved in the future indicating their initial launch device is even worse and therefore even more of a beta product.

    Therefore they must not launch any firmwares to show that the camera as of day of launch is perfect. Infact they should relaunch the original 1.0 firmware for all the cameras so that users can claim that the first firmware was already *perfect*.

    And I really wish they launched the FF, because only FF is the best.. 35mm has the magic look that just cannot be reproduced in an APS-C. Price, weight, size is not a concern for the X-series!

    (Written by nobody but the anti-firmware and FF evangelists)

  • Glenn Brown

    I moved from FF Nikon to X Trans over a year ago, we have had great Firware advances along the way. In my mind FF is the new Medium Format.

    • http://deleted hexx

      haven’t shot medium format in a long time then ;)

      • Andy

        Medium format is the new large format… and no I haven’t shot large format for a long time. Ok I haven’t shot large format at all.

  • http://nwinspeare.com Nicolas

    I heard the word “operability” loads of times (I didn’t count!). I love that attitude! Aps-c gives us a great size for lenses and don’t forget, we have some great f/1.4 and soon an f/1.2 lenses. All at a reasonable price. I have an x-e1 and gear lust made me want an x-e2, but I won’t anytime soon. A firmware upgrade will give me useable auto-iso in a week’s time. My x-e1 is giving me more fun and more keepers than my d800 ever did. My only wishes for a future camera are a whopping great big evf, and a tilt able screen. Focusing although not perfect will only get better and better with the generations, even the Sony a7 isn’t perfect, and my experience with it in the shop was very bad. Operability? Sony doesn’t understand the word! I made a leap of faith when I went over to fuji, I’ve still got the faith!

  • Lars

    Couldn’t care less about full frame.

    But there’s no plans to update the XPro1 to put it back as the flagship model, but it was more important to update the lower X-E1 to essentially make it the flagship?

    Come on Fuji. If they don’t get the XPro1 back to the top spot in 2014, I give up. Firmware updates won’t change the fact it’s running on an older sensor and processor.

    Get with the program, Fuji.

    Do you see Nikon refreshing the D600 with a D610 making it now better than the D4? No. And same for Canon and all the others.

    Get the XPro1 back at the top of the pyramid where it belongs.

  • DTB

    What date was this interview held?

    • TJM

      Good question.

  • http://trentontalbot.me/ Trent

    #1 – Told ya. And this is a good news.
    #2 – Great news, now I won’t hold my breath waiting for X-Pro2.
    #3 – Time to invest in memory cards. Again.
    #4 – You mean XF, not XC, right? Cropped ultrafast lenses (even zooms) are reality. And some (not all, but some) pros don’t care that much about weight. A bright (by all means) example is Sigma 18-55/1.8. It’s huge, it’s heavy, and I’d love to see something like this offered by Fuji. On some events, it’s better to carry 2-3 zooms and change them occasionally, than constantly changing primes (or carrying 2-3 bodies with lenses attached).
    #5 – Yippie-kay-yay! I mean, yippie-kaizen! :)

  • MrGecko

    As I suspected, the product cycle is long. X fans got uses to seeing all these products rolling out and started to think 1 year is a cycle. One thing I got our of this interview is a fairly clear direction for the enthusiast market for the bulk of the lineup and again as I suspected, this is where the money is. If you take Canon and Nikon as a benchmark you would likely see a new flagship every 3+ years at least. Was a bit shocked at first with regard to glass then thought about production costs and that made sense. the longer you can produce in mass the more profit. The only thing keeping me from jumping into the XE2 is the looming 1-2 cameras being announced in Q1. All in all happy with this news.

    • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

      A long life cycle is good. As I said, it is nice to be able to settle in on a system and not have it pulled out from you every couple years.

      If Fuji or any other maker wants to get into another niche market…make us a FF 6mp back for the old film Hassy’s.

      I’d love to keep shooting my SWC’s, but it must be FF to make sense with the SWC. Lower mp is fine, as long as it is under $3000 for the back.

      6mp is more than enough to out do film with a FF 6 x 6. As I posted before, a 6mp cropped RD-1 does nice work for prints up to 11 x 14.

      Another area to work on is better digital BW replication of film. It seems the sharper digital gets, the less it looks like film. Maybe they need to reduce the IQ of BW film replication to get it film like? I don’t know. But I love the look of film, just hate the hassle shooting it any more.

      http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/image/42924242457

  • George

    So, shall I wait 3 more months to get sure that there will be really no X-Pro2 in the near future or just buy the X-Pro1 right now?
    I’m already waiting for 6 months and can’t await it anymore…

    • Ken

      If you need a camera now, buy it now. There is always a new camera right around the corner, and if you wait for the next iteration, you’ll never buy anything.

      (Keep in mind that I am famous for buying new cameras at the very end of the product cycle, usually by accident…. :)

      The X Pro 1 is still a very capable and interesting camera, plus it’s a lot of fun to shoot.

  • 18in32

    Hate to say it, but I’m in the FF camp so I find this disappointing. I’m the “enthusiast” market everyone is targeting. I don’t have the professional’s budget (or excuses) to buy lots of cameras or lots of lenses, so I buy very slowly and very carefully and try to get as much out of my dollars as I can. In that regard, I have enjoyed both the X100 and the X100s, and am planning to move into something with interchangeable lenses. I assumed that would be the XPro1 replacement or the XE2… but then Sony hit us with the A7R. Some say MP count is meaningless… but it isn’t for me. I crop a lot of my photos, and I view cropping to be as integral to the artistic process as initial framing is. A lot of times the shooting situation doesn’t allow you to physically move to achieve the framing you want, so cropping is the only way to achieve the image you want. And a FF 36 MP ILC camera that is essentially the same size as the X100s is very attractive. I would prefer to stick with Fuji as I do like their commitment to photographic operability. But the A7R is looking very attractive.

    • 2daloo

      Apparently you don’t value in-focus photos however. The A7/R has focusing problems. Not that Fuji excels in this arena either, but not that bad.

      • 18in32

        I’m not sure if I value in-focus photos or not… I’m not even sure what you mean. But I agree that the X100 was horrible at AF, which was one of the key considerations (along with write times and processing speed) that prompted me to move to the X100S. But I have been quite disappointed that the X100S is still pretty poor at focusing. I do a lot of low-light / natural-light photography, and X100S is pretty frustrating in that regard.

        • 2daloo

          All I’m saying is the A7, especially the A7R, seems to have some difficulty with focusing. That’s kind of a deal-breaker for me, as nice as the FF sensor would be. I can’t say for myself, haven’t tried it, but this seems to be a common complaint.

          As a personal preference, I also can’t stand the Sony and other brand cameras that just feel like a computer in the hand. I want a camera that feels and looks like a camera. No it doesn’t make a difference in images, but it makes a difference in my shooting experience. Which is why I take pictures to begin with, for the experience and enjoyment of it.

    • Flavio

      If you need to crop so much you are probably using the wrong tool for the job: you would be better served by a zoom and crop optically with that! It doesn’t make sense to have megapixels in order to crop…you need them only to print big!
      If you want a prime lens you definitely have to zoom with your feet or make the best composition, think out of the box, from where you are…otherwise go for a zoom!
      I do think the megapixel race, especially for enthusiasts like you and me, doesn’t make sense: a lot more therabytes to store, faster computers (or slower post-processing…), huge capacity cards…and all to beable to pixel-peep and marvel at the amount of detail we will never see again once we post-processed that shot!

      • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

        Street work does not always allow this. If your Cartier Bresson Ok…you shoot no crop. For me I need to crop many times.

        Zoom lenses?

        Another no-no for street work. Small footprint is best. But to each their own.

  • SamuelMV

    Good News. Full frame is bad for the X system. I have a D700 that I love and FF will bring:

    - bigger, more expensive, heavier lenses
    - less resources, less focus: divide and lose

    I’m jumping to Fuji because of IQ, size and weight. If I lose the later just to improve a little bit the former, then the change stops making sense and I’d stay in Nikon’s camp.

    IMHO Fuji should focus in being the best APS-C mirrorless system. In the long run it’d become the main market for photographers.

  • C. C.

    Patrick:

    Fuji may still produce the rumored FIXED-LENS full frame X200. Right? That would not be as difficult or challenging as a FF interchangeable lens system. Sony did it with the RX1.

  • aps-c

    Where does he say, that there will not be a x-pro1 successor? I didn’t hear it out.

  • lalala

    time to switch to sony FF

    • Raz

      Bye! Enjoy your lousy corner performance and massively overpriced Zeiss glass ^_^/

  • Bevan

    Good interview…Im happy for Fuji to keep developing APS-C and work on the organic sensor. Thus keeping the size factor small and light compared with bulky DSLR’s….which is the reason I choose mirrorless fuji in the 1st place.

  • john

    Japanese people are so polite :-)

    A succesor for the x-pro 1 with just the extra “”x-e2-features”" makes no sense: the introduction price of 1599,- does not make sense anymore with the introduction of the full frame sony A7.
    They can’t make it cheaper, because it otherwise will cannibalise their x-e2 sales and because of the productioncost of the hybrid viewfinder.

    So if there will be a succesor it’s got to have something extra for example a X-trans III with more pixels… or something like that.

    For me my x-pro1 is good enough, only wish for a more usable focus-peaking with the vf without using the magnify-function.

    • Eric

      Such X-E2 features such as phase detect AF, a more responsive EVF, and focus frame selection in C mode in addition to S mode would be important improvements over the X-Pro1 for me at least. However, if I wasn’t interested in the OVF I’d just go ahead with the X-E2, but I’m actually strangely partial to the larger size of the X-Pro1 (assuming the X-Pro2 follows that path design point).

      The “no X-Pro2″ comment I took as an attempt of Fuji to avoid the “Osbourne Effect”, but that might be wishful thinking on my part. I suppose the no-FF comment could be similarly positioned, so if anyone’s wishful thinking so inclines them, feel free to employ my preferred potential self-delusion…

      • john

        Eric, would you pay extra 599,- for the extra size then?

        • Eric

          Not alone, as mentioned the OVF is a factor (actually by far the major factor – the comment on the size was off-hand by comparison but does add to the value somewhat as well to me). Although I was hoping for some other things we as well so I’ll have to see what materializes, but if the extent of the focus points that also are involved in phase detect mode that would be a help for the event photography I do. No indication they were going to do that, but it was an area that appeared to have potential for improvement. Hopefully there will be others as well.

  • amk

    I generally love what Fuji is doing with their X line. They are not a huge company and can’t go head on against other established players. What they should (continue) to do is strengthen the niche market they have found. No one denies that FF has the potential for better image quality, just like APS-C is better than 4/3, however, for most non-professionals and even a good number of pro’s, APS-C is able to deliver the quality that they need. By focusing on high quality APS-C mirrorless cameras, fuji has found a space where they don’t have to compete head on with other players. Also, you can’t get away from the realities of physics and optical design… full frame mirrorless lenses won’t be much smaller than the current dSLR variants. So, what would be the point in that? Having a tiny FF rangefinder attached to a lens 4 times as heavy? Fuji is catering to someone like me… tired of the heavy dSLR set up and lack of seriousness in the segment by nikon/canon (look at the lack of truly high quality optics sized for DX- think about it this way too, if canikon did not have the resources to fully develop two high quality lens lines, what makes you think a smaller player would be able to pull it off?). The X system delivers outstanding quality in a package half the size as canikon.

    And for all the complainers out there… in 2 years fuji has done for APS-C what neither Nikon nor Canon have been able to achieve in 10+ years.

    My prediction is that in due time, systems like fuji X will mostly replace the APS-C dSLR’s. For FF, I think that you will see some rangefinders but the action will be in a mirrorless equivalent of today’s dSLR’s once EFV’s have virtually zero lag.

    As far as fuji is concerned… I hope they continue with their Kaizen philosophy and invest in the X system.

    • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

      Well spoken post.

      But, as far as the rangefinder. That is why Fuji should work on a Leica knockoff. Tiny Leica and Zeiss lenses already out there. No need to have big giant lenses on a little body. Fuji is not stranger to rangefinders. The Fuji X pan and the other rangefinders were in Fuji’s old lineup.

      Now, if Fuji can’t afford to branch out, then fine. Stick with what they can afford. For myself, I almost never shoot with my full lineup of dslr gear any longer. For sports and macro, OK I’ll go dslr. But for the rest, it is Fuji. If I need something very disposable or super small, it is M43. But as was mentioned M43 is no Fuji in IQ, so I try to go with Fuji as much as I can.

      • daniel’s film

        How about a couple “rangefinder style” manual focus lenses? compact FX primes with focus tab. The current 23mm 1.4 doesn’t make this “compact” system very compact. The current lens looks like it belongs on a DSLR.

        Using a summicron 35mm on the X series defeats the purpose of the compactness of the summicron by having to add an adapter.

        I would buy into this system if Fujifilm made a compact 23mm2.0 and a 35mm1.8 full manual FX lens.
        -Ricoh GXR M-mount shooter.

        • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

          I am sure you and 150 other guys would buy it. So if each you paid 20,000 dollar per lens, it might actually break even.

    • ronin

      “in 2 years fuji has done for APS-C what neither Nikon nor Canon have been able to achieve in 10+ year:

      Except attain a customer market that will keep them profitable. Inasmuch as the point of making cameras is to make money, I wouldn’t idly dismiss those who make products that people like, buy, and use in huge volumes.

      • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

        Sadly, neither do Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Samsung, Pentax-Ricoh and the rest. Only Canikon and Leica make a profit with their camera division. And it remains to be seen how long Nikon’s and Canon’s profits remain sustainable.

  • James

    I’m happy with this direction.
    The current x-bodies have great lenses because they were designed for aps-c sensors.

    Take a 24/1.4, 35/1.4, or 50/1.2 lens on a canon/nikon/sony aps-c camera for instance.. They are -much- larger, and much more expensive because they were designed for 35mm coverage.

    • Micheal

      Nobody forces you to select f1.4 for FF. Nikon (or Canon as well) offers f1.8 series for those who prefer light, fast, compact lenses with very affordable price. Nikon 50/1.8g and 85/1.8g are good examples of low-cost, light, and great-performance lenses. In January, Nikon is going to introduce 35/1.8g for FF too. Their availability and collection of FF lense is good example.

  • Bemused

    Why the endless demand for more megapixels? 16mp is a great sweet spot between high resolution and low noise on APS-C format…

    • Scott

      Exactly, Why do we think they picked 16 mp its just right in a lot of ways.

  • http://500px.com/photo/54102740 Mauro

    perfect…now we want 10-24 f4 perfect :-)

    • Richard

      With 72mm filter, it will be huge and heavy.

  • http://deleted Raist3d

    I am fine with APS-C and fine with 16 MP. The only thing I have always wished is smaller size.

    I would love for Fuji to come out with a compact F2.8 to F4.0 prime focal length equivalent to 150mm-200mm. Just make sure it’s small. IS if possible – if it doesn’t sacrifice the size too much.

    • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

      I wish Fuji would come out with a Fuji X the size of a M43…but it must have a shutter speed dial on top. No program dial BS with all those buttons to adjust. I’d luv to dump my M43 gear for a mini Fuji.

    • Scott

      F 2.8 to F 4 wont make a small lens, 5.6 will give you a smaller one. F 2.8 will give you a 85 mm filter or so on a 150mm to 200mm lens. Thats something no one can shrink.

      • toby

        @Scott – how did you work that out? My Nikon 80-200mm for FULL FRAME only has a filter size of 77mm

  • Rap

    I appreciate Fuji’s consideration for the existing user in regard to FF body. However, Fuji needs to consider the competition and potential customer’s perspective as well. I won’t be surprised if they put out a FF in the future.
    It is a different story for the existing user who may come from FF DSLR, for those users, the current lineup is “good enough”.

    • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

      I don’t understand why this interview is generating so much attention. It simply says what everyone here already knows: There is no full-frame “for now”, because we know that there is no sensor Fuji can access. The earliest date for a FF mirrorless Fuji camera with a Sony-based sensor is Photokina 2014, and that would (according to the rumors on this site) probably be an “X200″. Then, in 2015, there MIGHT be a FF MILC with separate FF lenses (as stated in the interview). It all depends on how the first half of 2014 develops for Sony and others who join the FF bandwagon. Guess what, 2015 it the time after “for now”. So there’s nothing new.

      • Scott

        One can tell who reads most and some that just look it over. If they make a FF I would hope it have a short lens mount so we can adapt older lenses like we can to the X line up, Thats fun playing with all my old glass.

        • http://www.fujixspot.com/f34/ Rico Pfirstinger

          Fuji made some kind of commitment to the M crowd by offering their own M adapter, even though several symmetrical lens designs don’t perform overly well with the 16 MP Sony sensor. They perform even less well with the current 24 MP Sony sensor in the NEX 7, so now everybody is waiting for what sensor Sony is coming up with for the NEX 7 successor. Will this new sensor offer on-sensor PDAF that works even in low light (the PDAF pixels have to become smaller and less light efficient after all)? Will it work with the short flange back distances of X-Mount? Will it be tolerant to symmetrical M mount lenses? I don’t know, Fuji is probably evaluating pre-production samples of this sensor as we speak, trying to figure out if or how they could possibly make it part of future APS-C cameras that may be announced at Photokina 2014 (or later).

      • 18in32

        I respectfully disagree. The rumors posted on this site have been that Fuji was developing a FF camera that would not be released for a year or two. The interview states that Fuji is not currently developing a FF camera.

        Essentially, the rumor was that Fuji was a step behind Sony on the FF product development path, when in fact Fuji is not on that path at all and is actually thinking/hoping that Sony’s FF adventure will be a failure. Given all the press and excitement surrounding the A7/A7R… well, it is too early to say.

        He makes clear in the interview that Fuji will get on the FF path at some point in the future if the market pushes them that way. But they’re not on that path now.

        I, too, would love a FF X100… but nothing he said gives me any reason to think it is coming.

  • Huw

    Fuji underwent a fairly significant product rationalisation process over the last year. The direct product profitability of the tail of its range clearly either did not show the necessary financial returns, or was forecast not to do so in the near future as phones chew through the sales of basic compacts.

    Fuji Imaging is not an enormous organisation; it certainly does not have the resources of something like Sony. It needs to pick its battles.

    The cost of putting out another high end range of bodies, lenses and accessories is substantial. Never mind the simple R&D, the manufacturing and the distribution costs; the range would need to be launched, promoted and supported in the trade and in the media. Not to mention the ongoing process of FW improvement.

    I’m guessing that it’s simply too much for them to resource and to manage.

    Of the ‘only’ 700k X-range cameras sold to date, I don’t know how many have been X-PROs but I’m guessing not that many. These guys are not just in it for the love, money talks.

    If I was their Director of Innovation and the basic consumer interest for FF seemed to be there, I’d try a FF version of an X100 and stick it up against Sony’s RX1 to test the water. I certainly would not be launching another set of ‘halo’ products straight off.

    (p.s. anyone know how many RX1s Sony has sold?)

  • http://www.christsna.ch Chris

    I see his point. But I would love to have a full frame camera in style of the X-Series. Although the performance of the cameras & lenses are already incredible, my gear lust wants more. Besides that may be a new brand for full-frame mirrorless would be an idea (Z-Series or something like that). What do you guys think?

    • Raist3d

      May I very humbly ask you to consider taming your gear lust by getting out and trying to improve your photography? Don’t let that stuff control you.

  • bla

    currently, just fuji make adapter like Metabones Speed Booster to FF effect.

  • http://vladinterfoto.com fujidai

    As landscape and architerture shooter I need 24MP 100 ISO RAW sensor. With Fujinons like 14-23-35-60 APS-C X-Trans more than enough

    • http://deleted hexx

      you’d be better off with Cambo or Alpa and DMFB ;)

  • hendrik

    It would be wise if they go medium format size instead of full frame route. Just like pentax, they are trying to produce medium format sensor because it serves different market (pro ad shooter). While the APSC is for enthusiast. Just imagine, 56mp medium format xtrans sensor :P

    • DTB

      If they designed it like a Mamiya 6 or 7, that would be very interesting. However, since Fuji doesn’t design its own sensors and the medium format sensors available are somewhat dated tech, it is highly unlikely that they would design one. And, if they did, and it would priced at about $10k or more, most people wouldn’t buy them.

  • Aleste

    It all depends on what “just now” actually means. I find it hard to believe that we will not be expecting a successor to the X-Pro1 for next year. Maybe “just now” means from now in 3 months.

    • DTB

      A camera salesman at a store in my city said that Fuji told them to expect a Fuji X-Pro 2 (1s) in March 2014. So, who knows. It would be a huge disappointment if they drop the X-Pro series. However, if they can’t sell the X-Pro 2 for a profit under $1500, it will be a hard sale

  • Micheal

    No 24MP or 36MP sensor = No buy!

  • http://seanmarc-lee.squarespace.com Sean Marc Lee

    i never understood the debate. size trumps all. when i get super serious and doing not street portraits/etc, i just go medium format. simple.

  • Freddy Mello

    Dear Mr. Kawahara, please put a double sd card slot in xPro2, not more megapixel. It is a must for a pro. Thank you.

    • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

      If the Fuji had 2 slots, wouldn’t it be great if one could dupe the SD card from one slot to another? Would allow easy back ups in the field on the fly.

  • elren

    First of all – I’m happy with the XPRO 1 and my prime lenses. Could someone enlighten me why the current lenses not work at an FF? Whats the difference between FUJI and Leica? There prime lens from analog times work with the FF Leica M too. Why?

    Don’t get me wrong. I don’t need a FUJI FF – but I would by one if I could use my current FUJINON lenses. I can’t await the 56 1.2 and hope it last so long because FUJI deliver a real prime burner.

    best regards

    • 078Adam

      It’s the size of the rear lens element if you get a chance to see the rear of a Leica lenses its pretty large. Leica lenses where always designed with a large enough exit spread to cover a full frame sensor or historically 35mm film. Fuji’s where designed to cover the smaller sensor. The overall size of the lenses is similar but thats only because the Leica lenses do not have the AutoFocus motors etc.

  • fmNYC

    Love how he says a couple times, “We think it’s enough” (Megapixels, lenses). Nobody says “It’s enough” anymore. We just want more, more, more. :)

    • http://trentontalbot.me/ Trent

      “Want” and “need” are two different words for a reason :)

  • Chaz

    A general question – I apologize for going a little off topic.

    I want to get into an X system and have been debating whether to get the X-E2 or the X-Pro1 (or waiting for the X-Pro2(1s)). Given the current price for the X-Pro1 (less than $100 more than the X-E2), which makes more sense?

    I know the logical question is whether or not I want the OVF feature – which I’m uncertain about. But it is definitely intriguing to me. Up to know, I’ve been using an EVF, and haven’t used an optical viewfinder since my analog days.

    Anticipating the question of what I plan to use it for. I’m mostly (or currently) doing street photography using a micro four thirds Panasonic GX1. I’ve gotten used to making a contrast detect AF work in a street photography setting, but the DR of the GX1 is becoming limiting. When I’m not doing street photography, almost all of my work is “still” and 99% outdoors in natural light.

    Other than a real curiosity about the OVF, and the slightly larger size (I have big hands), the rest is admittedly aesthetic.

    Would welcome your thoughts. Thanks.

    • Guillaume

      I had the same questions in mind a few months ago and decided to buy neither.

      The X-Pro1 has an OVF and better battery life but looks and weighs almost like a small DSLR – too bulky for me to carry around in the street. I’m looking for something more inconspicuous and discreet than that big black brick.

      The X-E1 is ideally sized but lacks the OVF. Not that the EVF is bad but I feel it introduces a distance between me and the scene and I somehow don’t feel totally comfortable with it, except in very low light where the increased clarity is welcome. Besides, the OVF allows you to see what’s coming into your frame because of the usual space between the frame line and edges of the viewfinder. Depending on your style, this might be crucial in anticipating and capturing street moments.

      So I just stuck with my X100 which I’m quite happy with anyway. For you maybe I’d recommend to try both cameras for a few days and see if the OVF is worth it. I don’t really see waiting for the X-PRO2/S as a good option since we don’t yet know if/when it will come out, the new features might not be that game-changing (XTrans II processor + ??) and if we believe MR Kawahara you can count on continued improvement of existing gear via firmware updates.

  • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

    Forgot to say Mr Kawahara…

    While 2 SD slots is nice, DON”T increase the size of the Fuji to do it. I’ve never missed a shot due to not having 2 card slots. I’d much rather have more MP or a slicker sensor. 2 slots is just icing on the cake. The size of the XE-1 is excellent, so please don’t expand the footprint.

  • Per K

    The message from Fuji is really: Buy what we have NOW! Don’t wait!
    Pretty normal for a manufacturer I would say.
    FF or not is another thing. I bet Fuji are continuously looking at future products, not necessarily yet decided which way to go. To go FF will require pretty expensive development costs.
    Now Sony has proved it is possible, not only to design a small, lightweight FF mirrorless, pricing can be attractive as well. Only one flaw with the camera itself: Focus speed and accuracy. (Well known problem also for Fuji.) Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic to start with must consider the new situation and act in some way.
    Is FF valuable in itself? To start with 36mpix is a LOT more resolution than 16 mipx – only the ignorant or stupid would say something else. Then we have tonality and large printsto name a few things.
    Personally I own a m43 Oly EM5, a Fuji XA1 and a Nikon D800. Comparing a A4 (210 x 297mm) print EM5 vs XA1, I see a clear difference in quality in about 2 sec. Comparing a A4 XA1 vs D800 will take a little longer, maybe 5 sec. (Analyzing WHY takes longer in both cases.)
    Conclusion 1: If you have nothing to compare with – you may not have a problem
    Conclusion 2: If you think Fuji X is good enough anyway – you have no problem
    Conclusion 3: If the 36mpix FF performance is what you want, and you can afford it, get one. But if you think about the SonyA7/R wait until you know what lenses will be there to support it.
    Conclusion 4: When you buy a interchangeable lens camera you by a SYSTEM, not a camera. What lenses are available? Size and weight? Price?

  • Neil

    have just been looking at the specs of the Sony camera and its not the full frame that attracts me – i really like the idea of the eye-af – it seems much cleverer than the face detect that fuji have and its assignable to a button for on/off.

  • http://edjonesphotography.com Ed

    This is good news to me. I was only concerned if the “pro” line went FF, rendering my lenses useless and my body obsolete. This re enforces the very reasons I switched to Fuji, that they are about great IQ, looking after their customer base and not in the MP/ Gear race that all the others seem determined to drag their users through… I almost cry seeing other photos replacing their gear every 18 months because their company of choice has added 1/2 a MP or 20!
    Me for one, my preferred step “up” from my X-Pro1 would be into medium format (although now I think an XE-2 might join my kit sooner with the XP2 not coming tomorrow). I’d loooove to see a MF done under the X banner… that would be sweet, imaging an X-trans MF sensor… they wouldn’t even need to go huge MP with the inherent X quality!
    But for now, I’m happily planning to add an XE2, XF23, and when it comes out, the XF56 (anybody here need a kidney, I think I may have to sell one to finance it! maybe not, solo much cheaper than the Canon equivalent!)

  • plq

    The interview is interesting. And it does require some comments.

    And let me describe where I come from, simply by observing reality (and being an engineer and marketeer).

    Fuji are out to sell cameras. The message in the interview is clear, wee have a fine system now, buy the cameras and the lenses.

    I agree, The cameras are fine. The lenses leave little else to be desired. They are competitively priced.

    But the FF onslaught from Sony will affect Fuji. Hence the interview.

    Fuji are also offering outstanding packages with the X-Pro1 at this time, buy tow lenses and you get the body almost for free.

    So Fuji are doing everything they can to push their products.

    Also, keep in mind that the sensors used by Fuji are made by Sony. I do not think that Sony would allow access to a FF sensor until the Sony FF system is well established in the marketplace (6 to 12 months into the future?).

    So if you are buying a camera and you are looking for reasonable quality, are you likely to buy a FF, and APS-C or a 4/3 camera?

    As time goes by, the sensor contribution to the cost goes down – for real figures, look at DSLRs.

    So if you want to stay in the quality camera business, you have to provide a product that buyers appreciate as quality. FF implies more quality than a smaller sensor.

    Good enough is not strong selling point, never has been, although the images may still be great for the size you put on your walls.

    This goes for just about every technological product.

    So are Fuji thinking/developing a FF camera? Of course they are (unless of course they are leaving the market).

    What is required to do in order to put a FF Fuji on the market? What does Fuji already have?

    Well, they do not have FF lenses. So a new line of lenses will have to be developed. They will be larger that the APS-C lenses, and thus more expensive. The current lens line-up is fine to me, and very little is missing from a general purpose photography system. How long did it take Fuji to get this line to the market? I’d say between 2 and 2,5 years.

    What they do have is outstanding viewfinder technology, which can be carried over, e.g. very little development.

    Cameras, the actual bodies? They have a series of bodies and feature incarnations from low end to high end with a common bayonet. I assume that the bayonet will work for both FF and APS-C sensors. That’s how a seasoned developer would plan his product line (when sensor prices fall, can we fit a larger sensor behind this bayonet? Would you like to answer no to that question? No developer worth his salt would do this mistake!).

    If you look at the size of the Sony FF’s, and compare them with the Fujis, it becomes interesting:

    X-Pro1 139,5 * 81,8 * 42,6 (width, height and depth in mms)
    A-7 127 * 94 * 48
    X-E2 129 * 75 * 37,2
    X100s 127 * 74 * 54 (lens included)
    RX-1 113 * 65 * 70 (lens included)

    Assuming Fuji can do what Sony can, from the figures above, it should certainly be possible to fit a FF camera inside the current Fuji bodies, and retain the same bayonet.

    As the lens roadmap in my mind is now nearing completion, at least for most photographers, I assume that Fuji are now working on the FF lenses.

    They may well introduce FF in the same way as they introduced the X100, e.g. starting with a fixed lens camera – Sony did the same with the RX-1.

    FF Fujis are likely to start coming out at the top, e.g. a X-Pro1 FF version – top of the line customers are more likely to demand the best (FF is inherently better than APS-C, 500 horsepower is more than 250, even if 125 horsepower gets you to work and home again).

    When will we see the FF? As soon as it is needed, and Fuji have access to sensors would be my prediction. Until then, the message is going to be exactly what is said in the interview. We have what you need. Sensor size is not that important. Good lenses are. And we’ll keep on updating your software for free.

    And in the end, it might take a very discerning users to distinguish the current line of Fujis from the FFs. The lens size will be a giveaway, but I believe the camera bodies could be just about the same.

    My two cents worth, enjoy the holidays!
    peter

  • http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/ Daniel D. Teoli Jr

    Thanks for your detailed post Peter. I’d love to have FF ability. Now having FF ability would not mean I use it all the time at full res. But, when you need it…you have it!

    The problem with Sony is they are even less pro worthy than Fuji with their new school designs. They have no shutter speed dial and the lenses are not suitable for serious street / documentary work. No zone focus ability or aperture ring.

    Fuji has gone downhill here as well. Fuji tried a few wobbly aperture rings on some of their lenses. I have to use gaffers tape on my Fuji 14’s aperture ring to keep it on target. Now Fuji has opted for their continuous variable aperture ring…just terrible.

    Fuji had it all figured out and breast fed to them by Leica. All Fuji had to do was copy the Leica, stick their FF sensor in it and sell a FF rangefinder knockoff for $3000. Then if they still wanted to come out with their Fuji X for the camera fondlers…fine. Fuji could surely have covered the pro and enthusiast field without much problem. Fuji did not have to make lenses for the Leica knockoff, enough are already out there.

    If Sony had made a Leica style camera with manual controls and a decent lens line up I’d be there. I am not in love with my Fuji. The Fuji is just one of many tools I use to bring home the image. If Leica digital was $3000 per body I’d be there. The problem is NOT that I can’t afford to buy 1 Leica for $7000. The problem is I can’t afford to buy 4 Leicas for $28,000. My 4 Fuji XE-1’s cost me about $2600! (Imported)

    I do use a Sony 20mp pro PS cam that I carry in my pocket:

    http://wheelingwv.tumblr.com/image/68126250907

    It is a little beauty and produces excellent photos on the dummy setting. (I don’t know how to adjust it and if I did know, I’d miss the shot fiddling with it anyway. ) But that is it for Sony in my stable. If Sony wants my biz they need to come out with a FF Leica knockoff for $3000 or less.

    Fuji you have a fabulous sensor. You have a nice small footprint for the X cam. Your lenses have outstanding IQ…but that is it. The rest of your crazy designs have major problems for pro photographer using your equipment successfully and comfortably in the field.

    Fuji…here is my bio.

    http://biographyofdanieldteolijr.tumblr.com/

    Next year it is 45 years shooting experience for me. Fuji if your serious about making the top pro rangefinder in the world I will give you my consultation for free. Your engineers are not doing a great job for you as it is.

    Daniel D. Teoli Jr.